Sowell: Who Shut Down the Government? (great read)

By compromise, you mean defund the ACA. Because they won't accept anything less. There is no compromise with the Republicans in the House. It's accept their demands, or the government is shut down, and we'll default on our debt. What you're saying is that you would succumb to extortion. What kind of President is going to give in to blackmale?

What should sound "childish" to you is a small group of people that are saying if you don't do what we want, we'll close down the government and push the country into default. Do elections matter to you?? This entire thing has been dealt with over the past 5 years. What you don't seem to get is that if this were allowed to take place, we will go through this over and over, because they will know that they can continue doing this until they get what they want, which is the repeal of the law. They lost that fight.

 

Sorry, but you lost that fight. And 74% of the nation is telling you that you're wrong. The Republicans are blocking the funding of the government because of an ideological stance on one item which is already implemented into law. It isn't discretionary spending. It's mandatory. That means that even if the government is shut down, it still operates. The Republicans are wasting everyone's time and costing the country millions a day with their insanity. They are being held responsible for this mess, and if we don't raise the debt ceiling, the impact will be on Boehner's head.

 

This has all been explained to you repeatedly. If you don't understand that coercion, extortion, and blackmale are not the operating principles of this country, then I don't think anybody can help you. Elections have consequences. When you win, especially by 5 million votes, you get to govern according to what you ran on. When you lose, you don't. And if you need to resort to threats of shutdowns and defaults to get your way because you couldn't through elections and even the courts...then you simply do not believe in the democratic process, and prefer extortion and terrorism as your operating principles. And, you'll lose all credibility with the people.

 

NO!. They aren't blocking ANYTHING with their votes. They're blocking by preventing any votes from taking place. If a vote were put on the floor, this would be over. There are enough Repubs and Dems to form a majority to pass a budget.

What's really weird is that this has been explained to you so many times, and you still keep saying the same thing. Maybe the type isn't big enough. Hows this; BOEHNER WON'T ALLOW THE VOTE TO TAKE PLACE. If he brings the vote to the floor, it passes. Do you understand this now??

Wrong. It's already funded. You don't understand this do you? What the Republicans want is a clause in the budget that Defunds the law. That's what's going on here. The Senate and Obama are not going to agree to DEFUND it. This is how the Republicans intend to repeal it. Defund it, then repeal it. That hasn't worked, so now they want to delay it. The funding is already in place. It's mandatory spending like Medicare.

 

NO. Does that answer your question? You don't threaten to shut down the government and default on our debt, unless you negotiate. That's not negotiation. That's extortion.
It's like saying,
I want your car.(Obamacare) NO.
If I can't have your car, I'll burn down your house. (the economy of the US) NO.
You aren't negotiating. If I burn your house down...it's your fault

 

TeaPublicans HAD THEIR CHANCE 6 years ago to participate in the ACA hearings...they chose to participate in a disingenuous manner, stomp thier feet and demand over 200 amendments in an attempt to undermine the ACA. The state of the ACA is directly due to their demands.

That was the time "negotiations" were supposed to happen...they did and we were left with the resulting ACA....AND NOW THEY DISHONESTLY WANT TO CLAIM THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WANT TO NEGOTIATE. TYPICAL.

 

Actually it was 700+ proposed amendments, 170+ that passed. But still, your point, spot on.

 

I am a former Republican turned Independent, but you are clearly not speaking for "us." I am indifferent toward the ACA, but I'm disgusted that Congress won't accept the fact that it is the law and it's funding was appropriated four years ago! If the House wants concessions to the law so badly, then they can pass a Continuing Resolution so our government doesn't look like the ignorant, dysfunctional mess that it is. Nobody in Congress is being asked to "change their support for ACA," but they are being asked to accept that we are a nation of laws and a government of process; the ACA is law and Congress is responsible for passing an annual budget. What really "doesn't make sense" to us Independents is why funding the government should be contingent on blowing up a law that a handful of Representatives don't like.

I understand why partisan Republicans and Tea Partiers hold the view you are promoting, but it's misguided at best to think that moderates or Independents do.

 

Nope. All government programs require congressional approval for funding every year.

The House of Representatives has passed a budget every year. Obama and the Senate hasnt passed one in 4 years. Just as the house of representatives has passed a CR to continue funding the government and the Senate and president rejected it.

 

Thats exactly what the Senate and President has done. The House Continuing Resolution didnt shut down the government, IT FUNDED the government. Senate and President rejected that funding because it didnt include funding for the ACA. Shutting down the government in response to a denial of funding for the ACA.

 

Nope, lol. The reason the gov't shut down is because there is a group of people(GOP/conservatives) that dont like gov't and they will do anything to keep it from running efficiently. Thinking that it was the DEMS is just blatant dishonesty.

 

No, the republicans dont like the ACA and want to deny it funding. The democrats are the ones denying funding for the government in response. Republicans want to shut down Obamacare and the dems shut down government in response

 

Are you saying that the reason we haven't had a budget in 4 years is because Boehner refuses to bring it to a vote? I'm trying to get to why we don't have a budget. Because that's why we are in CR status in the first place. I completely understand that Boehner could have a vote, and the govt could be temp funded for a couple more months. I don't understand what that has to do with not having a budget.

Ofc Boehner has the votes to pass the CR. Because if it isn't passed, the govt is shutdown, we got to default. etc. I can see how these circumstances might sway some votes. My question is, do they have these same votes, when a govt shutdown isn't on the line.

 

Nope. The GOP shut the government down because they couldnt get the ACA defunded.

 

Because this government is based upon separation of power. The Executive, Legislative, and Judiciary. The president is not the King, Emperor, or dictator of America. Shall we begin to call Obama Generalissimo. BTW it's already been proven that the inept programming of the website is the problem. Heck, even Gibbs (Baghdad Bob) has acknowledged that and he's called for the firing of those responsible.

 

Negotiating about a law that has already been passed? Seems like the time for those types of negotiations was when the law was written, not when it's about to go into effect. Refusing to pass a budget unless it defunds existing legislation is like me buying a bond and when it's time to cash it in, refusing unless we re-negotiate the interest on it.

 

Some time around the time that we decided a declaration of war wasn't necessary to involve US citizens in foreign conflicts.

Just a plain stupid comment, last I checked (aside from gerrymandering) all of our officials were duly elected, being the exact opposite of a dictatorship.

wtf are you even talking about. I have, had and will continue to have insurance provided by my employer, nothing whatsoever has changed for me.

 

Hmm...., In that case we should still be under the National Prohibition Act known as the Volstead Act?

 

Then you must be working for the Obama administration.

 

Except that ended via a democratic process... Did you skip history class that day?

 

I'm an independent myself, and I detest people assuming that they speak for me. We cannot allow government by extortion. I know that these people hate democracy but the country decided on this through two elections, and a handful of zealots aren't going to derail the nation to serve their ideology.

 

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Thanks
Shangrila
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