Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

Do you really believe that after centuries of accepting subserviency women did not accept their position, rightly or wrongly, regardless of whether it was institutionalised or not. It's simply a matter of words.

And I don't think Plato was even a twinkle in some distant, very early, grandparents eye when subserviency was 'born'.

The church simply carried on a practise in operation for 1000's of years. It was still in practise in most parts of the world not covered by Christianity. Had you lived in the 12th century CE you would have had no qualms because you would have been brought up with the practise.

Like many others you think like a 21st century person. A person of his times. They were people of their times - times completely different to ours.

It amazes me how intelligent people lack that understanding or are not prepared to think that way.

I've said this before. In a future time people will look back and say just how ignorant or strange our behaviour was to theirs.

 

Man of the future will have noted that under matriarchies, man live in relative peace for 20,000 years before going to patriarchies after the bronze age, ---- where he created weapons powerful enough to kill each other more easily.

Before that in matriarchies, we did not even bother building defended cities.

They will wonder why men lost their sense of honor and duty towards women and family.

They will wonder why man, who said he sought justice, could not see the injustice in denying women full equality.

Regards
DL

 

I am not aware of a general concensus that matriarchies were ever the normal state of affairs throughout the ancient world. There were probably small groups where this applied. Then were they actually matriarchal, matrifocal or matrilineal. What evidence have we of these worldwide societies other than a few artifacts open to interpretation and myth/handdown stories. I should be interested to see this proof. What museum/library or building should I go to see these.

 

This is where I started and then googled about.

You are right that there is no general consensus as is the case with almost all of these ancient speculations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU1bEmq_pf0

Regards
DL

 

Thanks for the Website, but I seldom watch these. I went through what we are talking about when studying the Bible against ancient civilisations and myths/codes etc. some years ago.

 

This was thousands of years before the son murdering genocidal God was even thought about.

Regards
DL

 

Jews.
Statistically speaking, Jews do not exist yet, there is no other people on Earth remotely similar to them in history; influence; and significance.

 

Except that the Old Testament waffles with this idea in several different places. You're right, it seems Jews eventually gave up on the view that future generations deserved to be punished for the sins of their ancestors. BUT, there is also a basis for generational punishment in the Old Testament.

Genesis 20:5 "You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me"

Deuteronomy 5:9 "You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me"

 

Yes.
And according to the Torah, this idea stated - that those who continue to hate Me, even to the third or fourth generation, will be punished.
"The iniquity of their fathers" is the fact that they have passed on their sins and hatreds to their children, and future generations.

 

Indeed. They are who they are thanks to Christian hatred.

The same applies to women and gays.

Christianity has a lot or immorality to answer for.

Regards
DL

 

Yes but if the God in question is not worthy then it is blessings being passed down.

In the case of the O T God, it is a blessing as he is quite the prick.

If read the Christian way. If read the Jewish way, he is not that bad.

If read literally though, even the Jews will reject his sorry ass.

[video=youtube;dx7irFN2gdI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI[/video]

Regards
DL