Civil War In Ukraine - They Are Killing The Police

Things are starting to come to a head in Ukraine. (As one commentator put it, just yesterday, this appears impervious to any possibility of a negotiated settlement. One side will entirely vanquish the other--nothing in between.)

Here is a bit more on the matter:

And the link to the entire article: http://www.worldmag.com/2014/02/winter_at_the_barricades

 

The Ukrainian people are id***s for allowing the E.U. and U.S. to destroy their country. Oh yes they were being paid by the U.S. to protest and to stay in the streets and burn their city, and now they will pay for it with their lives...as will the innocent citizens. In the past 24 hours, 1,500 firing arms and 100,000 bullets have been stolen from arms depots. It's a civil war, and the rest of Ukraine isn't going to sit idly by and let the nationalists and terrorists take over. Many of the police officers were shot in the head and neck with sniper like precision, and if I recall, weren't there snipers also at the beginning of the war in Syria? There are dark forces at work, and I keep suspecting the New Ottomans and the MIT.

Of course the E.U. could have done the right thing and split up the country, instead of trying to impose the nationalist groups on the rest of Ukraine, but NO! That would have been too decent, and they wouldn't have been hurting Russia, and after all, isn't that what the intent was?

All I can say is bravo McCain, you supported the terrorists in Syria and destroyed the country, and now you've done it to Ukraine as well. Is it any wonder people are questioning your sanity?

http://rt.com/news/weapons-protesters-kiev-police-745/

 

New Ottomans? Turkey has enough domestic problems to spend the next 50 years fixing them .
The center of Tatar culture is Tatarstan ( Kazan is the capital) in Russia, when was the last time Tatars were involved in terrorist attacks? The idea that "all muslims are the same" is naive .
Lavrov talking about US terrorists is kind of expected

You got it wrong , the issue in Syria is KSA and petrodollars luring US administration against the Baath movement .... but greed is good right?

English are Germanic people so your point is false.
Oppression can have many forms and it is always wise to revolt against it.
If you are even slightly familiar with European feudalism massacring the nobility was not a bad thing for the king.

 

These Tatars were fighting with the jihadists in Syria, if they are not terrorists, then what do you call them? Also if they were not militant, then why did Stalin ship them into the hinterland during WWII?

You are right, but this doesn't eliminate Erdogan's ambitions in grabbing a chunk of Syria in the process.

The colonists weren't oppressed, they just felt they shouldn't be taxed without having a say in the British Parliament. The King had some sort of mental illness at the time, and his blunders caused him to lose his wealthiest colonies. Anyway the American revolution was completely different from other ones, because our Founding Fathers were brilliant men who were willing to compromise and work things out. There were thirteen American colonies who had their own governments and state Churches so a Federal government in Washington had to be formed without taking away the rights of the individual states.

Our government has survived for almost two hundred and fifty years. Of course now with the Democrats and the Obama administration, who knows if it will survive much longer.

 

You are wrong , Tatars are not fighting anywhere ... you probably need to read who is who in the area .
Tatars like their Mongol brothers do not exactly subscribe to Arabic BS.

Right now Erdogan will be very happy to save his skin , the turn Turkish politics have taken during the last years clearly shows that the power lies in Riyadh .

Although 18th century is not a period that interests me so i am not even moderately informed about it i still remember that it wasn't only the UK that lost several colonies , Spain lost Argentina & France lost Haiti , probably the cause of the revolutions was not just an imbecile king but people getting tired of colonialism.

250 years? wow what an accomplishment !!!
All mainstream parties are sold off to neoliberalism and the rich only identify with other rich , for as long as you pollute your mind with non essential stuff like nationality and disregard things that matter like class such worries will always be there. See what is happening now in Ukraine is poor people getting injured or killed over BS like who will exploit them.

 

I see that you have cited, not the Associated Press, or Reuters (which, presumably, are neutral dissemenators of information) but a Russian source.

Some people might regard this as, well, just a bit tendentious...

 

why would anyone want to be a kremlin stooge like that?

my friend from odessa says:

"Ukrainin government hired numerous writers and political bloggers in US to write this stuff.

and you can never be sure this doesnt lead to Kremlin"

 

Sure, people brainwashed by Associated Press, Reuters or CNN are afraid of other sources of information. Clever people do know that there are no really non-biased news sources anymore and use whatever information they can and analyze it to find to find a truth.

 

why wouldn't anyone want ukraine to be free from russian dominance?

anyone other than putin and his cronies, i mean

http://www.zakon.kz/4604516-volnujushhie-foto-iz-kieva.html

 

But isn't it the U.S. who is paying the protesters, and weren't foreign dignitaries in Kiev? What are they doing there, after all the people in the U.S. would have been furious if foreigners came and encouraged the Occupy Wall Street movement. By accepting these foreigners, and allowing the U.S. to choose who your next president should be, are you being a U.S. stooge?

Let me explain what is really going on. We keep reading statements from Obama and Kerry telling the Ukrainian government not to do anything to stop the peaceful protests, and yet at the same time we see pictures of Kiev on fire and protesters using every sort of attack weapon imaginable. Are these the peaceful protesters Obama and Kerry are talking about?

I mean come on, the American people are not idiots. There is a saying that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. The Russian government doesn't have to do anything, all it has to do is to keep showing videos of what is really going on in Ukraine.

 

Look, I only want what is the best for the people of Ukraine. I knew right from the beginning this was going to happen. Now if I knew it, then certainly our government must have known it unless they are stupid, which sometimes I wonder? Either that or this Obama administration is highly immoral and could care less over how many Ukrainians die.

You people have to face reality. In Eastern Ukraine and in the Crimea the people lean towards Russia. You can't force them not to, so why not figure out how a compromise can be achieved before you end up like Syria.

 

I'm sorry, but this argument has been used way too many times. If you must know, 13 policemen and at least 21 protester (in the last two days; a number of protesters had been killed in the last two months) have been killed so far.

The riots were instigated by President Viktor Yanukovych's wish to strengthen ties with Russia, severe new anti-protests laws, and the abduction and beating of opposition activists. Berkut, or the Ukranian anti-riot police (which is a different branch than the anti-riot units from the regular police. When you look at all those youtube videos you can see two sets of uniforms being used by the authorities: camo-> Berkut, navy blue-> regular police) moved in to disperse the initially peaceful protesters. People were beaten up, shot at and arrested. These initial clashes have caused the demonstrations to spread and intensify.





I won't go into who is right or wrong, should Ukraine join the EU or stay under Russia's hat (even the nation itself is divided on the subject) and I do not support violence of any kind, but saying that the civilians are being payed by the US while those very same people are dying out there somewhat trivializes the whole thing.

 

no, by allowing ukrainians to choose their own leader and sending russian stooges home

come on now, don't you understand what a peaceful means?

some americans aren't idiots, but others are ignorant of history and fall for putin's ridiculous lies

hook, line and sinker

my friend from odessa says:

"they bring thugs from prisons, dress them as protesters, and give them weapons. that's russian style of doing things"

"Jeannette is spreading classic Russian propaganda à la cold war style"

"Russians are saying openly that US mercenaries are in Kyiv and there are none."

 

So, those of us who prefer the AP or Reuters to a Russian source of information--or disinformation, as the case may be--are simply "brainwashed."

I see...

 

Perhaps even more.

There are now "at least 70 people dead and hundreds injured" in Kiev, according to one source.

 

No, you do not see.
Today you cannot believe any (I repeat: ANY) single source of information.
(AP and Reuters are a single source)

 

It seems like the best course of action would be to split the country by ethnic lines. The east can be a Russian-friendly proxy state, and the west can be an EU member.

 

Enough police have been killed so that they are now being allowed to use weapons instead of just rubber bullets.

Yanukovych had no choice. Russia would have had to stop its 'favorable' trade agreements with Ukraine which would have been catastrophic for their economy, and the E.U. was not willing to cover the losses. As an incentive not to unite with the E.U., Putin gave Ukraine a lower price for gas than the rest of Europe, and also an enormous loan to help it survive. Russia was willing to talk to the E.U. about the trade agreements, since it could not allow E.U. products to come into Russia through Ukraine, but they refused to talk about it. The way I see it, the E.U. & U. S. instead of giving economic incentives, are encouraging instead the protests. Wouldn't you consider that coercion?

According to the French news service Voltairenet, when the protests first started, jihadist Tatars from Syria began going to Kiev from Turkey. I believe the atrocities on both sides are provocations by these jihadists for their own self serving reason, which I won't go into. The Ukrainian government asked the protesters to hand over the extremists, but they didn't do so either because they didn't know who they are, or they felt they were an asset against the government. It seems a repeat of the Syria scenario...and by the same forces.

If I recall correctly when Occupy Wall Street started, people were laughing at the way the trust fund babies could afford to be camped out and not work. Well these protesters in Kiev are from the poorest areas of Ukraine, and yet they can afford to camp out in the freezing cold for two months. Someone is definitely paying for it, and I did read at the last count that twenty million was forwarded by our government. If not to pay them directly, then at least to feed them.

 

with iron curtains

i have a ukrainian source, that doesn't get filtered through any media

what do you have, the pravda or do you go straight to the kremlin?

 

The west is the half of the country that is pro-Western, while the large Muslim Crimea in the East is pro-Russian.

The East in part of Gog, which is about to experience on-going rebellions for a long long time, as we see elsewhere in Arabia now.

 

I think its time to stop our communication in this thread. Fruitless.

 

what about magog?

i can see how you'd want to run away

 

I don't know if the E.U. wants to gain control, but Germany definitely wants to free itself from its gas dependency on Russia. Seems though Russia is one step ahead of them, and I say bravo for Russia. The West friendly Yeltsin allowed Russia to be robbed of all its natural resources, and the Russian people were actually going hungry. Putin pulled the country out of the mess and gave them back their self respect, and isn't that what a leader of a nation supposed to do?

 

putin is a liar and a cheat

 

I would change one of your words. "Protestors", like "demonstrators" is a word implied as being peaceful. Armed militant extremists executing a rebellion and attempting a Cou de ta.

What's extremely disturbing is that this is absolutely nothing new. It's little different to Syria, Egypt etc. Democratic countries are being taken over by terrorists, and this just further proves there is foreign involvement, and this is in fact quite a routine pattern for decades.