Who brought sin and death to the earth? Man, Satan or God?

You gave me an either/or proposition that didn't include my answer. Sorry you don't like the answer. I don't do anything for my benefit, nor the benefit of others. When I do it for God, he ensures the beneficiaries, not me. He's the ultimate benefactor, not me.

I know what to do for myself and for others by the Word. And it doesn't tell me to kill children for their own salvation.

 

OK, I got it...thanks.... it's just part of their "dance"....

 

YouLie

Then let the vast majority go to hell. That is the right thing to do. Right?

Regards
DL

 

Yes.

The hypocrisy hoedown. Ye-Haw.

Regards
DL

 

Schopenhauer would say "the will".

 

So you are saying that god planted the trees there just to toy with A&E.
And then when they took the bait he slammed them.
What do you suppose would have happened had they first eaten of that tree of life and become as gods and lived forever?

 

we don't serve anything but humanity and the planet. if that's too chocolaty for YOU, and you need to imagine there are further (and far less productive and benevolent) options, knock yourself out.

incidentally, if you believe the stories, you don't have anything like a choice. it's his way or eternal torture in the lake of fire.

finally, god created us to worship him? seriously? this is what you guys believe, yet you claim to have great purpose. astonishing!

 

God considers all sin equal as far being something that damages our relationship with Him, but the consequences aren't always the same.

I'm confused as to your comments about reproduction being good and evil and knowledge of good and evil being necessary to reproduction. Could you elaborate please??

 

That's not what I said at all, not even close. In order for a person to love, the choice to love must be one that comes from free will. If there is no option to choose between, there is no choice. If I only offer you one glass of water and then tell you to chose what you want to drink, do you have a choice if you must drink something?? God offered the choice because it is a requirement for the choice to love. Without an option, there is no choice. Without a choice, there is no love. Without love, our entire existence is meaningless.

The only person who said that eating of the Tree of Life would make A&E like gods was Satan and he's the father of lies.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't sound like someone who has anything even remotely resembling an open mind on the subject of Faith, so why do you involve yourself in these conversations??

 

And I would thank him for saying nothing useful.

Regards
DL

 

I was talking about God's sins of omission in Eden as he did not give all the consequences and that could have made a huge difference. Right?

That sin was before A & E supposedly sinned.

Did God sin?

Does reproduction have good and evil aspects and if so, then A & E could not know of it or do it because they had no knowledge of anything with good or evil associated with it. They had no knowledge at all of anything that could be good or evil.

Right?

Regards
DL

 

This is a really bad interpretation people have of their own religion.

God is not about free choice. All throughout the Bible he does nothing, if not give people specific orders about what to do and exacts vengeance against those who transgress or impede those orders.

Ultimately, you do not punish people for making a choice if you want them to have free choice. But God always punishes, and religion always speaks of the consequences of acting immoral or counter to the will of God.

Religion is the antithesis of free will.

 

God does not sin. Just because He doesn't do what you expect him to do, doesn't make it wrong. If you have a 2 year old child that you want to protect from getting bitten by the dog, you teach her not to pull the dog's tail. Do you explain to her the full medical description of the trauma that will result in being bitten?? No, you teach her that pulling the dogs tail is a bad thing and that she shouldn't do it. As she gets older and more able to comprehend these kind of details, you teach her these things. God gives us what we are ready for and what we need. Just because you think that you should be allowed to "pull the dog's tail" without consequences does not mean that it should be that way. A&E were told that there were things they were expected to do and things they were expected to avoid and that was what they were prepared for. The full consequences (knowledge of good and evil) were not something that they should have had to know. With simple obedience, the choices of things they could do to screw up were fewer, so the opportunities to sin were fewer. God gave them what they could handle and as is evidenced by what happened, when they went past that, they ended up in a place where their sins had consequences beyond what they were ready for. As an adult, if you get bitten by a dog because you pulled it's tail, you know what will happen and how to handle it, but if your two-year daughter gets bitten for doing the same thing, she has no expectation of being bitten and no knowledge of how to handle it. The best she can do is cry, hold her bitten hand and run and hide from the dog (almost exactly what A&E did).

 

I've never read where God said that A&E became as gods. Could you point me to the verse where it says that.
Remember that even Satan had the ability to choose and God will not infringe upon that, even to the point of allowing Satan to choose to lie. Once again, I come back the idea that without choice, you can't love. Had Satan never had the ability to lie, he would have had the ability to CHOOSE truth over lies. God wants us to be free to choose and HE will not take away that ability so that we can truly love.

 

Show me where God forced anyone to love Him. Even with the presence of consequences for disobedience, we have the choice to do those things which please God. Part of loving someone is doing what pleases them and if you're never told what pleases someone, then it's pretty tough to do those things. God lays out things which please Him and the things which don't. For the things that please Him, He shows what the benefits are fro us for doing these things (at times, simply because it pleases the One we love) and for the things which displease Him, He shows us the consequences of doing those things.

I think that what you and Greatest I am are missing is the fact that EVERYTHING God does is motivated by love. You see the abuses carried out by people operating in His name, but not out of love and confuse those actions with Him. Everything God does comes out of love and love requires choice. It's a simple concept that few people grasp, yet it is at the core of who we are and who He is.

 

LOL........he sure is hard to understand, I'll give you that.

 

Thou shalt have no other God's before me, for I am a jealous God?

You do not write laws or give commandments to people you wish to act freely.

Beyond that, unless you are Jewish, God doesn't love you. The Christian God is the Hebrew God, and the Hebrew God contacted and made a pact with Hebrew's alone.

 

Incorrect. You allow people to choose between what you want them to do and what you don't want them to do. God did as much as He was willing to do to get us to follow Hiw ways, short of impinging on our free will. AGAIN and AGAIN, this comes down to an issue of free will being a requirement for love.

God ha salways loved all people, but He did favor Isreal early on. The analogy of a parent once again comes to bear. A parent cares for all children, but thier own are special to them. If you saw a neighbor's child running into a busy street, hopefully you would do whatever you could to stop that child, the same as you would your own child, but if there was your child and your neighbor's child running into that same street, you would save yours. God's attitude towards Jews and Gentiles was the same.

 

First Sinner?

Hmmmm....whoever the first guy who came up with the concept of Sin pointed at.

First killer?

Everything or person who has ever existed has killed.

Why does the SNAKE always get screwed?

I mean you never read a story that say's...and Satan came in the form of a Furry Puppy.

AboveAlpha

 

sounds like extortion to me.

Pay me with obedience and worship and you will be happy and peaceful and loved.

Choose not to obey, and I'll make you go play with Satan and suffer eternal damnation.

Yep lots of "choice" for the masochist I suppose.

 

Show us what kid of loving lesson God was showing us when he tortured King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it because he was angry with David.

What is our moral lesson here?

Regards
DL

 

Progressives

 

Gen 3;22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Do you have the good morals required to recant?

Regards
DL