"First Israeli killed by Gaza rocket fire..."

You had ample chances to explain what you mean and now refuse, its pretty clear you have no point to make - in fact there is no practical difference between sovereign nation and a political party elected to control an autonomous territory.

So far youre just another pro- Israeli bull merchant. But Im going to give you another chance to actually explain what the significance is.

Im not. I just dont buy the bull you sell here.

Mass round ups, two teenagers shot dead on the West Bank. That sort of thing.

Of course they have to negotiate. But you seem to think they have to accept Israeli terms, or Israeli viewpoints. Theres nothing to suggest they have to do that so you just pulled it out your well informed rear end again didnt you?

Are being deliberately dumb? I said Jews wouldnt accept such cowardice. Jews may not have always fought back but they didnt accept whatever they were told. And they didnt surrender either.

What is your problem?

Ah yes, but why should I read this? Its a list of essays on geo politics and oil that you have'nt read. Are you going to explain it to us or is this more of your Bull merchandise?

Which explains why youre wrong. These nations arent well known peace makers.

I doubt you have a clue what youre talking about and wont explain it because it cannot be explained by you.

Instead you bluff you just know something I dont.

You think this situation we're discussing is funny?

Youre jaded about death? What do you know of it??

But you arent jaded enough to ignore stupid Islamist propaganda statements about martyrdom and embracing death I see. Nor are you jaded enough to not swallow Israeli propaganda either.

 

All anybody needs to do in order to understand what's going on is to read the following two pieces concurrently:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...eful-injustice-israel-attacks-occupied-people

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39087.htm

 

LOL. Your neo zionism is some 51 years old. Like I said.

Are you that ignorant that you dont think Israelis didnt actually want to take over the lands in 67?

Bargaining chips? All that land from 47 on and the ethnic cleansing it required was just bargaining chips?

And why are you telling me that Palestinians are stupid? Do you think that makes you look smart or that it makes some wider point?

WTF are you talking about? The first intifada didnt even happen til the 80s, nearly 20 years after the invasion of the West Bank. The PLO renounced its claim to 78% of Palestine and you got your big wall.

And you still blame Palestinians? Maybe you should blame everyday Israelis and the pro-israel crowd here for letting these land stealers since its they who actually used your tax money and political support to do it.

Why would you guess Im not familiar?

Is there some detail of my apparent ignorance youd like to discuss? What are these claims re Avi Shlaim?

 

Palestinians are the source of violence in the Middle East .

 

Yep, it's the Palestinian's who are occupying Israel and illegally building settlements on Israeli land. Also, it's the Palestinian's who have broken more UN resolutions than the rest of the nations of the world combined. Silly me.

 

every rocket fired at israel is a war crime, every rocket launcher in residential area, school yard, hospital or playground is a war crime as well...that the UN chooses to not issue resolutions on countless war crimes, violations of international, humanitarian and human rights laws committed by pretty much all arab/muslim countries speaks volumes about the UN, not Israel.

PS Gaza is not occupied and Israel's troubles with Gaza started the moment occupation ended.

 

I wonder how many Israeli hating Arab thugs, will go to heaven to met their much desired 72 virgins?

 

Yep, and Israel never had any terrorists; Lehi, Irgun the Stern gang were "freedom fighters"...or so some apologists would try to have us believe.

 

Not only the left; the Israeli government has had lock-step unconditional support from both sides. I assume it was the Israeli government you were so correctly and succinctly describing. But, hey, it's ok; being as they're your 'allies' I guess it's fine for them to attack and attempt to sink your ships, murder your citizens, spy on you and allow you to execute their spies, sell your military secrets to your political enemies and allow their prime minister to publicly mock you for being a weak pushover.
I wish I had some good friends like that...

 

When exactly did the Jews call for the extermination of Germans and attack them relentlessly? Seriously in a conversation about Israel and Hamas you really shouldn't bring up the Nazi comparison unless it is in relation to Hamas which calls for the extermination of not just Israel but of all Jews.

 

Stern and Lehi are the same organization, they were a splinter group and never had more than a couple hundred members, Irgun was branded as a terrorist organization by the Jewish agency which was the precursor to the first Israeli government, Hamas IS the Palestinian government.

 

So that is why Hamas forbid woman and young girls to leave the house when Israel inform them it is going to bombs it.
I never figured it out before, now the dots are connected...

 

Nothing brings Stormfronters and Jews together like a good Muslim lynching....

 

How many are firing rockets at civilians today?

 

No occupation=No resistance to occupation. Simple equation. PS contrary to your claims, Gaza IS occupied.

 

Gaza could be a fantastic resort type area if Hamas and the Palestinians simply would give up this idiotic revenge mentality. They could develop this area into an international destination and respective a great financial reward that they could then use to further develop their communities there.


This war could be over this very minute if Hamas simply quit firing rockets into Israel.

 

You seem to be confusing Islamist and Islamic.
I guess that whole 72 virgin thing is new to you, and you haven't seen any of the videos of hamas members speaking about embracing death.

Are you at all familiar with human history? Prior to the 20th century, can you name a single instance of a technologically superior culture meeting a primitive culture where the primitive culture has not been conquered or destroyed? The age of european colonial dominance and "moral empowerment" are long gone. I leave it to you to figure out how the establishment of Israel and the failure to establish palestine was substantively different.

Of course there is proof. Perhaps you should visit the IDF website, where they document all of the rocket attacks.
AS to the reason why, perhaps you can review the statements made by Hamas.

Well you'd be pretty dumb if you thought they tortured a couple of guys into confessing, since they haven't apprehended the culprits at this time. And of course you'd also be grossly ignorant of how the Israelis operate - not that they wouldn't torture somebody if necessary, but they wouldn't "settle" for a couple of patsies, knowing that the real perps were still running around.

Yes the egyptian proposal which was rejected by Hamas.

Palestine didn't decline, Hamas declined.
I realize that you wouldn't make a deal with devil, but the Israelis seem to be bigger than that and were prepared to.

For somebody with such strong opinions, you don't seem to be in command of all the readily available facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

The answers are readily available, but it seems you are waiting for somebody else to provide them to you.

yes. Might want to review the record. That did not preclude civilian deaths, but those civilians behind Israeli lines were treated as per the geneva convention. Read a book.

How self righteous of you.
Name a single nation on the planet that has allowed international law to trump its own national security interests. The US? Russia? China? India? Syria? Egypt? Israel? Serbia? Viet Nam?

International law is generally unenforceable until the conflict is resolved and then it always the victors applying it to the losers.

you can't differentiate between the occupied and the occupiers? Or that citizens of the occupied territory do not have the same rights as citizens of the occupying territory?

Reality can be such a B**ch, but believing it is certainnly not idiotic.

If you can come up with any logical explanation as to why Hamas insists in fruitlessly and repeatedly getting the people it supposedly represents killed and their homes, neighbourhoods and urban infrastructure destroyed, both myself and a goodly chunk of the rest of the world are all ears.

 

Hint: palestine is not a sovereign nation.

Oh, so you aren't whinging about Gaza and Hamas getting hammered right now?

We'll just have to disagree on what constitutes collective punishment.

No, they don't have to accept the Israeli terms, it is called negotiation. But who has the stronger position and the most leverage?
the fact that the palestinians are not going to get the deal they demand should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Neither should the fact that until they decide that their national aspirations trump their intransigence on secondary and tertiary issues, they will only accomplish perpetuation of their dismal condition.

Jews throughout history have repeatedly had to accept what they were told. Seems you need a few history lessons.
I find it hilarious that you claim that jews wouldn't accept IDF cowardice.

What is your problem?





Ah yes, but why should I read this? Its a list of essays on geo politics and oil that you have'nt read. Are you going to explain it to us or is this more of your Bull merchandise?



Which explains why youre wrong. These nations arent well known peace makers.



I doubt you have a clue what youre talking about and wont explain it because it cannot be explained by you.

Instead you bluff you just know something I dont.



You think this situation we're discussing is funny?




Youre jaded about death? What do you know of it??

But you arent jaded enough to ignore stupid Islamist propaganda statements about martyrdom and embracing death I see. Nor are you jaded enough to not swallow Israeli propaganda either.[/QUOTE]

 

That's strange. Maybe all those Israeli bombs raining down on highly densely populated civilian neighbourhoods were Hamas rockets after all? In that case, it must of been Hamas who were "targeting" themselves. Presumably this "targeting" explains why a Gazan hospital was hit as reported on the BBC News channel about 30 minutes ago. In order for the Israeli claim that it is targeting Hamas to stick, you are going to have to proof that the Gazan hospital was either occupied in part by Hamas operatives, or that they were operating within close proximity to the said hospital. Good luck with that.

 

What on earth does your response have to do with my post? Oh right NOTHING.

 

It has everything to do with it. You said, "Hamas insists in fruitlessly and repeatedly getting the people it supposedly represents killed and their homes, neighbourhoods and urban infrastructure destroyed".

 

how many decades of oppression/occupation would you accept before turning to violent resistance?...the usa didnt suffer anything close to the oppression the palestinians have endured before it started a revolutionary war with Britain, what horrible injustice started that war?...oh yeah taxation, oh the horror!...

 

the violence could end if israel actually made a genuine effort at a fair peace proposal...

 

Israel has accepted both cease fire proposals. Hamas has rejected both. Hamas responded by firing rockets into Israel. The onus is on Hamas here. Israel is simply responding to a sustained attack by Hamas.

 

So what? Hint; You have no answer.

Uh no, you are.

Oh really? Do tell us about it.

And the fact that Hamas and the Gazans continue to resist should tell you that Israel isnt going to get what it wants either.

Nonsense. Thats simply not true, they kept themselves a separate community successfully for centuries across europe. Its you that needs the history lesson.

Jews arent cowards so dont expect Arabs to be either.

Youve not managed to respond to the rest.

Clearly this discussion format is getting beyond you. Not as smart as you think you are eh?