Now that we're back in power, can we turn the tide on the war on marriage?

Absolutely, why not a 16 year old? Why not a 15 year old? Provide justifiable evidence for why it should be 17 or 18 and not 15?

Furthermore, how can you claim that we have to wait till 17 or 18 years old to be considered an adult, yet we've tried 10 year olds for murder as adults?

 

How many people under 18 actually kill someone with the intent of murder? As with anything their are exceptions to any rule. It's important to isolate and prevent them from doing something like that again.

How many 15 or 16 year olds do you know that mentally and emotionally capable of making and living with adult decisions?

 

According to the legal cases... thousands. So again, how can you claim that people who are the same age as someone who's capable of being tried as an adult for murder is not an adult?

I know plenty of 15 and 16 year olds that are capable. Hell there are 15 and 16 year olds that are capable of graduating with a masters degree from Harvard. Why do you feel it's acceptable to discriminate against them because of the abilities of other people?

You do realize that for thousands of years people 12 and 13 years old were engaging in sexual intercourse and getting married and managing their own farm. They were fully considered adults... with little to no effects from doing so. What objective evidence can you provide to say that it's not okay for them to be considered adults today?

I mean hell, open up a textbook of any 12 or 13 year old and you'll find topics that are FAR more convoluted than the meaning of consent and contracts. Topics that they're required to fully understand and be tested on or else they fail their grade. So clearly they're capable of understanding consent and contracts.

(DISCLAIMER: I do NOT feel as though these people under the age of consent should be allowed to have sex or marry... but I'm not the one claiming that all americans should be treated the same, etc etc)

 

What is the percentage rate though?

Then write your congressman about it. You do realize that for hundreds of years the majority of the world kept and used slaves don't you? Just because something used to be doesn't mean that it was alright.

You're also confusing the right for children to engage in sex, marriage, driving, drinking, and joining the military(I'm assuming you would include those things although you're free to correct me)is the same as the right to being treated equally without discrimination. Their's a reason we don't let kids do certain things, their's no reason to deny adults the rights to be in an interracial relationship, to give specific groups privileges while denying others those same rights, and to have an equal voice and say in what happens in their own lives. In the end comparing children with adults is a false equivalency and even then they're not being completely denied those rights, they just have to meet certain prerequisites before they can collect fully on their inheritance(couldn't think of a better way to put it).

 

I have no idea. But what does it matter? Are you asserting that we should be able to discriminate against people because of the ability or potential or behavior of OTHER people?

Of course not but can you show detrimental effects of those behaviors? There is plenty of evidence for the detrimental effect of slavery on the slaves... can you show the same for those people who got married at 12 years old?

No see the problem here is that YOU don't accept the justification for why we should be allowed to discriminate against specific groups of adults. That doesn't mean there is no justifiable reason. It simply means there's no justifiable reason that YOU will accept.

There's also no justifiable reason to the 13 year old who wants to have sex with and marry his 53 year old boyfriend will accept. There's also no justifiable reason to the 53 year old boyfriend that he will accept as to why you should be able to discriminate against them either.

Why is it that you feel as though you have the right to discriminate against groups or behaviors that YOU feel is justifiable, but you don't give a damn what other people feel is justifiable? Because I can assure you, there are PLENTY of people out there who don't give a fat baby's ass what you feel is justifiable or not... just like homosexuals and their advocates don't care if I feel that discriminating against homosexuals is justifiable.

 

I'm saying that children who murder are a small percentage of our population. And the ones that do are understandably treated as adults.

You mean besides the fact that kids who get pregnant at 12 face serious health risks?

What reasons is their to deny any adults equal rights?

You think kids are being discriminated against? You think they have the same rights as adults? Then by all means toss your car keys to an 8 year old. Let me know how that works out for you. But you saying that being a child and being an adult are not two separate things and the fact that you keep trying to equate the two shows either a lack of distinction or you have no grounds to base an actual argument on. The fact is I'm not the one trying to suppress anyone but if you want to go ahead and say that because I think a 10 year old shouldn't be smoking and partying so I must be denying them their equal rights is dishonest and is plain for everyone to see. But feel free to continue on with that narrative. You're not going to get anywhere with it because I already said it's a false equivalency, but feel free to continue.

 

for those here who claim - quite erroneously - that gays don't want to have the people decide need only look at Maine. Gay marriage was on the ballot three or four times in the past fifteen years. the first two times, the people shot it down. Then, the legislature passed it and the people used their people's veto to shoot it down yet again. Then, in 2012, it was on the ballot yet again, and now, it is the law of the land in Maine.... by the vote of the people. The people have voted to allow gay marriage in twelve states and it will be on the ballot every year until that number hits 50 or until SCOTUS rules in favor of it.

 

And those who want to have sex with and marry someone of the same sex is a small percentage of our population as well. Does that mean I can discriminate against them too?

Anybody who gets pregnant can face serious health risks. Furthermore, why can't a 12 year old male have sex with a 53 year old male like the guys in NAMBLA want? Pregnancy is not an issue.

Because they're a danger to themselves. They're a danger to others. They increase the costs of healthcare for everybody else.

There's no question they're being discriminated against. You simply think that it's okay to discriminate against them. And worse, you don't feel we should discriminate against them based upon their OWN abilities or potential but based upon OTHER people's ability and potential. You're engaging in hypocrisy of the highest order.

Provide objective evidence for the age of consent. Provide evidence that the age of consent should be at whatever age you want to define it as. In other words... if you CAN'T provide objective evidence for an age of consent that is NOT arbitrary then you have no grounds upon which to discriminate except for you think it's "yucky".

 

so... I take it you are not one of those righties who is all down on Muhammed for tapping the young stuff?

 

LoL Of course? I'm against anybody tapping the young stuff.

 

define "young".

 

I'd probably go with 18. Saying that, I'd also probably drop all limits on age to 18 (like drinking) because I don't see how you can justify different ages without it being completely arbitrary.

 

interesting, isn't it, that at different times in human history, that arbitrary number has gone up and down quite a bit.

so holding someone from a thousand years ago to the arbitrary number of TODAY seems kinda goofy, doesn't it?

 

You still on with that whole oppressing children meme? Good luck with that.

 

So, does anyone actually believe gay marriage is why the American family is breaking down?

I'm all for addressing the factors that are contributing to declining marriage rates. We need to deflate the education bubble for one. Youth are forced to delay adulthood a decade paying for a near worthless degree. We are pouring a lot of resources into secondary education both in terms of money and wasted talent. Just think if those sociology and anthropology professors were employed doing something useful. The welfare state has shirked responsibility from the individual and family unit to the collective regarding child rearing. Divorce law is insane.

Can we maybe talk about these things instead or are we simply trying to invoke poe's law of the internet?

 

I vote Republican and I support SSM. I'm more of a 'do what you want' liberal though.

 

LoL keep engaging in hypocrisy and stating how much you think ALL americans should be equal and ALL americans should be treated the same and ALL americans should have the same rights as every other American.... and then tell us about how SOME americans that YOU think shouldn't be treated the same... shouldn't be treated the same.

Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.

It's even uglier when one is too much of a coward to address it.

 

Do we think that undermining the purpose, intent and definition of marriage to fit the perversions of whichever group wants to do so while demanding the same benefits and producing none of the beneficiary behaviors that traditional marriage produced...

Nahhhhhhhh that's got nothing to do with it.

 

So you think dwindling marriages rates are due to state acceptance of gays? I'm going to be honest, you are going to have a real hard time convincing me you actually think this.

 

I never said it was the cause. But to claim it has no effect whatsoever is preposterous. Especially when those homosexuals are inundating children as young as kindergarten at school with the concept that the traditional marriage paradigm is false and that this new idea of marriage is what it should be.

The acceptance and normalization of homosexuality is a symptom of the disease of political correctness. And political correctness has a lot to do with the issue of divorce in this country. Because it's more important to be nice and not hurt somebody else's feelings than it is to tell the truth

 

Still being dishonest are you? Alright. Have fun.

 

Guess we don't have to think too hard about which way you swing.

Hey, you earned it, so you might as well flaunt it.

You're gonna have a harder time convincing me that anyone insinuated it in the first place.

 

I don't have to be dishonest. Everybody can see the pathetic debate tactic you used to weasel out of the issue.

Run away.

 

Children are being oppressed. Sure sure. Good luck.

 

Back in power? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obama can veto anything he wants as President right? Gotta win the Presidency to be "in power."