Israel killed more Palestinians in 2014 than in any other year since 1967

Sure, Bibi said that. So what? That only verifies the idea that the arab citizens in Israel have the same voting rights.

At some point, the libs are going to have to admit that nations have conquered nations have conquered nations - et. al., and when they do - land changes ownership. That's just the way it works.

How far back do you want to go? Where in the world do you want to go? Do you care ONLY about Israel? Or are you just as adamant about Boko Haram's conquests in Africa?

 

lol you know absolutely nothing here.
1/A dmz can serve as a buffer zone as they are not two distinct concepts.
2/ there were few actual buffer zones if any. The dmz is the only viable example. I asked which buffer zones you meant, a simple question and you haven't answered.

3/ Your claim is refuted by the facts. The brigades front lines of 1947-48 were pushed well beyond the various Arab villages when they were cleansed. Meaning there was no buffer zone. Nor were they simply trying to protect Jewish population centres as these we located mostly in the urban centre if the country.

You've predicted the future of the borders in the last post. Do you even accept that or don't you even read your own stuff?

Fascinating. 1/ Dier Yassin was not the only massacre that occurred and not the only place where villagers were forced out

To paraphrase Avi Shlaim; about half of the refugee population were forced out and the other half fled in terror. And paramilitary gangs can't be everywhere at once can they?

2/ Why are you lying about Israels culpability in Deir Yassin? Those who committed this atrocity were given mortar support at least by the Palmach a group created and funded initially by the hagganah and who's members formed the back bone of the idf. Meanwhile irgun leadership rose to the highest political office. You can't just make things up without back up because it suits your agenda.

The difference between you and I cautious is that I've read all the accounts. Both the virulently pro Israel stuff your reading right now to catch up and the ridiculous about pro arab accounts and the credible works of history; also read the works of actual historians with actual research ; what do you read? Clearly with your bs lines you dint read much but hopefully you'll educate me.

By the way it's nice if you respond to all the posts you receive that people have kindly taken the time to respond to you. This forum is not about you coming here to tell us about our lack of knowledge without either back up, a discussion or even acknowledgement

 

I fear to respond to this because it will distract you from the post I spent time on above.

But indeed nations conquer nations and people also fight back. International law was created to avoid or minimise such troubles.

Your trouble is you oppose the nazi actions of conquering and settlement but want everyone to also support the zionist action of the same in Palestine. Essentially because your view of Jewish people is that of a superior population made refugees from Europe who deserve a place above Arabs who are a lesser people with a lesser claim to places they already lived and live.

As for Boko Haram's action it's not a nation but indeed they need to be found and dealt with. The problem is similar to the mau mau problem in Kenya where they had a large forest hinterland to hide in. It took along to find them.

 

The Jews deliberately ethnic cleansed them into a meaningless minority.
That was the point.

No that works according to people who refuse to apply international laws. At some point the Israeli Jews and their henchmen have to admit that being ethnic cleansing thieves justifies being shot at. At some point the Israeli Jews and their henchmen have to admit that they stand isolated on their apartheid ways. Your approving ISIS ways belongs in the caveman era.

Would you come up with excuses when ISIS massacring and ethnic cleansing around the Jews in Israel, that this is just the way it works as well? Or do you only draw the line when Jews are victims and Jews are making victims?

 

Let's clear things up. Rangecontraction supports the annexation of the west bank. I don't.

As for hatred and vile. Look in the mirror. Your comments support evil and castigate innocent people. You don't actually see anything. Because you have no wish to. Be more informed the next time you wish to respond to me. I have no wish to read about what you see. Your opinions are ignorant and obvious. Either back it with facts or leave us alone.

 

Lol. Good point.

Nations conquered nations is exactly the same as ISISs policy and actions. Their great bogeyman.

 

Although I am not justifying any of the behavior you mention here, imo, the Palestinians brought this on themselves. I would have more sympathy if the method chosen by Palestinians to shed light on their cause didn't involve indiscriminate killing of citizens of nations not even involved in the conflict. Being American, of course I believe that at some point, people have to take up arms against tyranny. But I part ways with the Palestinians on who those arms should be aimed at. If the American Revolution failed, I wouldn't have supported the killing of French, Austrian, Italian, Indonesian, Indian, or any other nationality not associated with British tyranny, just to raise awareness of my cause in those national consciousnesses. That's exactly what Palestinian, and later terrorist groups who jumped on their bandwagon, did, beginning with the hijacking of the El Al flight, and the advent of international terrorism. Now we spend billions of dollars, and countless hours, on airport security, all initiated as a result of Palestinian international terrorism. Now other groups like AQ and ISIS have built upon the methods of early Palestinian international terrorism, and any religious zealot with a cause wants to kill foreigners (that have nothing to do with their cause) and get on TV to shed light on their warped ideology in the same way it was successful for the early Palestinian terrorists. And nowadays, the killing is justified by elite scholars in their ivory towers by saying, "Oh, that's just anti-colonial, anti-imperialist" terrorism that is to be expected.

I'm not prepared to say that killing of innocent people of nations that one isn't even in a conflict with, for the sole purpose of making those people aware of that conflict, is to be expected, much less morally right. The Palestinian terrorists, beginning with the El Al hijacking, have hurt their own cause. And if the Palestinians that you speak of, who are being oppressed by Israel, know what's good for them, they will start abandoning these terrorist tactics, and start holding those accountable who commit them.

Again, if the Palestinians have a case of being tyrannized by the Israelis, I expect some violence between the 2 peoples. But what I don't expect is for the violence to spread to other peoples...just because the Palestinians feel those other peoples need to pay more attention to their plight. So they kill those other peoples along with Israelis. That's wrong.

So in the end, even if the Palestinians have valid complaints, representatives of that cause have destroyed any sympathy for it.

 

How hypocritical, whining about insults while overlooking your own.

 

Feel free to point them out.

 

Terror and state terror exists on all sides and take out all kinds of people, including my own the British, so why dont you just stop being so hurt about that and stick defending what is right? After all, no Palestinian terrorism event ever takes away from the truth on the ground, and they arent the only ones committing awful deeds.

Isnt it time you changed your mind to become more realistic?

 

A disputed case just as the other cases in which it ended up it was Hamas shells falling short that actually killed civilians. But then this is war and when you use citizens as human shields citizens get killed. The first step is for the Palestinians to stand up to Hamas and revolt against them to prevent them from using innocent citizens as human shields. Then a permanent cease fire which the Palestinians will abide by.

 

The existence of human shields is an Israeli propaganda myth used to be able to bomb anywhere they like. Hamas fires from every available space and even builds tunnels to ambush the idf. And Hamas does not force anyone to stay. As for UN buildings which strike do you mean? The idf has bombed quite a few of them.

and your wrong the next step is for Israelis and Americans to stand up to Israeli policy and demand that negotiations start.

 

First step is to have a zero tolerance against those Jews who keep on ethnic cleansing Arabs, and than keep on going until the those thieving Jews return the property they stole. Besides that, it's a rather ill meme that Hamas uses people as human shield. Israel shoots their white phosphorus in urban area's to burn the civilian infrastructure. They deliberately bombed the sewage and water plants. They banned the export of tomatoes etc. It's all aimed at the civilian population. And during the war, they deliberate use excessive force to kill civilians. Entire area's have been carpet bombed. And it's time to turn our backs towards to those racist oppressive ethnic cleansing war criminals,.. instead of coming up with excuses.

 

Speaking generally to your last point about what needs to happen as an addendum you American conservatives seem to be under the peculiar delusion that Palestinians don't think your intent is the same as the Israelis ; that being you wish to help Israelis take and keep as much land as they can get from them. The evidence has always shown them to be correct. You are their enemy and always have been. That's what your guys do want and each day you are on this forum conservatives openly affirm their hatred and contempt for their lives, livelihoods and living spaces.

You maliciously hold the resolution of the settlement building and gaze seige as low key issues while they tell you again and again that is vital. You do this deliberately because of your cultural and religious contempt for them which knows few bounds.

I hope this helps clear matters up for you.

 

Nobody is excusing any terrorism that is going on. I don't know what you mean about "kill those other peoples along with Israelis".

Today, the government of Palestine is under Abbas. Hamas acceded to that unity government, so it includes Gaza. Becoming a part of that government requires rejection of violent means as well as signing onto the two state objective of a permanent Israel beside a permanent Palestine.

Abbas has a long track record of working toward security in West Bank. He and his government is viewed by Mossad as a critical partner in security.

This has been going on for a long time.

We should know by now that the government of Palestine not only does not sponsor terrorism, but has a strong record of anti-terrorism.

If you didn't know this, you should be asking yourself why not.

 

This isn't good enough. We have all sorts of diplomats and politicians. We talk to Israel and to Palestine rather frequently.

They need to operate on a different level than judging the amount of sympathy or detecting whether it was "destroyed".

And, recent changes are significant. After the most recent war against Gaza, the Hamas government of Gaza acceded to the unity government of Abbas.

We should see that as significant. Abbas has led Palestine against terrorism for a long time now. Having him have significant influence in Gaza is a giant victory. And, it allows contemplation of new approaches.

One that Kerry and others have mentioned is that of allowing Abbas to carry out security operations in Gaza. That would include anti-terrorism as well as border security. Besides being his right as leader of Palestine, that would allow Abbas to displace Hamas. No longer would Hamas receive the revenue that comes with border control. No longer would the people of Gaza have Hamas as the sole supplier of government solutions to local problems - aid distribution, etc.


What I want to know is why this obvious method of marginalizing Hamas, securing the border and giving the citizens of Gaza an honest choice is being ignored.

 

No problem crybaby.

 

No they don't. They do not fire from ravines, pastures, roads, low populated villages... In other words they do not fire from any place where civilians are not present. You really stepped in it this time

 

Feel free? I already did, sparky!

 

Good job!

 

lol sparky I said you can feel free to point them out. please do so.

sparky.

- - - Updated - - -

Glad we agree. Get back to your plumbing.

 

Lol. Even the Israeli propagandists admit that;

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=h...as-fires-rockets-everywhere-gaza%2F;1700;1500

As you can see the firing is from all over the strip. Makes sense. What would you do? You'd keep changing your position constantly wouldn't you? You do have military experience don't you Dutch?

 

This is why American conservatives can't be trusted.

 

So.... Now you're saying Pally terrorists do have other places to shoot rockets from, not only from the schoolyards, hospitals, playgrounds, apartment buildings? Good to know

 

Yes and they do fire from these other places. Now you admit that.

Good to know.