Outside of the box Muslims

How about the killing of Muslims by Christians in Africa? It's interesting that the media frequently sidelines those atrocities preferring instead to tell us how 'evil' Islam is, don't you think?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

 

Your very perceptive, and your correct.

I'm one of those that wear their heart on their sleeve, and I feel everything.

I used to participate in crash site investigations with the FAA in another life, and I could never sleep because of all the carnage I'd see.

I am filled with empathy all the time, and believe me at times it's just a curse.

Regarding my attitude towards the forum members in here...............there are an awful lot of good, intelligent people in here. Along with my emotional side I am a very good reader of people. (even over the internet)

I am an expert at reading between the lines, and I rarely get people wrong.

What I can tell you based on my observations from many posts & threads in here is that while there are a lot of good people here, many of them definitely have, shall we say......."issues" with people of color, any kind of color, and they make it painfully obvious and painfully clear.....a lot!

I understand everything your saying regarding the problems with Islam, and how many people interpret it's writings. I have always admitted that there is a problem, and that Muslim religious leaders need to do a better job of getting everyone on the same page in weaning out the bad actors.

The problem is...........that's literally impossible, and any sane person would know that. How could any human or group of humans reign in millions of maniacs who are convinced that a book tells them its ok to kill all who don't think like them or believe what they believe.

And lets be very clear here Merwen, that's exactly what we're talking about. We could both focus on all of the killing, and all of the negative's surrounding Islam from individuals who have hijacked Islam from the good actors, but why, and who does that benefit?

My position here is that there are roughly (combined) 2 billion Arabs/Muslims on this planet, 1.6 to 1.8 billion of them are not terrorist or view the Quran as a field guide for killing the way terrorist do.

Unfortunately because of many of the things you wrote in your post, most people from all over the world have painted all 2 billion of them as evil people that follow an ancient, bloody religion that mandates that they all kill all non-believers, and Merwen..........nothing could be further from the truth.

 

These gay Muslims would, and believe me there are many more gays in the Muslim world than people would think.

The argument that all Muslims automatically agree with everything in the Quran or stand by the prophet Muhammad is extremely incorrect.

The proof is in the fact that you basically have 2 billion Muslims on this planet who mostly can't agree on what time it is, let alone how to properly interpret its writings.

 

Do Christians have enough love, enough compassion, to condemn (and not bring forward) the parts of the Bible that say to kill or even discriminate against gays? Christians, the ball is in your court.

 

No, they don't do that! You are dreaming. Let's hear THEM say it, not a "there's nothing to see here people, move on!" non-Muslim apologist for Islam like you. They fear retribution from Mohammad's invisible friend if they dare question any atrocity committed by Mohammad. That's intellectual cowardice - something that religions are famous for. It's time to wake up.

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Then obviously the Bible is a disgusting book!

 

Truer words were never spoken.
But in all fairness, any religion is a problem, because religions teach people that magic is real....they don't teach to believe in science, only in the magic of their "prophet".

 

Ok, First..............calm down, I can sense that this is riling you up.

I'm not gay or an advocate for gays, I'm just sharing a story.

Do me a favor and watch these videos, because obviously these Muslim gays didn't get your memo.

Understand something, your "fatalistic" view of this is completely wrong.

This first video is really good, because it speaks directly to your point, please watch it in it's entirety.

[video=youtube;D3gZJ1YrnXk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3gZJ1YrnXk[/video]

[video=youtube;TVhR_Drq734]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVhR_Drq734[/video]

[video=youtube;My8dvpDsPyQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My8dvpDsPyQ[/video]

[video=youtube;wdMl5k2S1K0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMl5k2S1K0[/video]

There are thousands if not millions of gay Muslims and they don't give a dman what the Quran says........................so get over it.

 

Nonsense. Let's hear them say that Allah got it wrong, then. Let's hear them, or they are pathetically two-faced. It's almost like if a Nazi said "I strongly disagree with Hitler's Holocaust, but I won't condemn Hitler, ever, never, no way, no how!!"

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Can you condemn Mohammad, and the Bible, in no uncertain terms, for saying to kill gays?

 

Ok, you're really not being fair here or being focused at all on what this thread was really all about or why it was created.

I don't have a problem with gay people nor am I religious at all so I don't understand why you keep asking me these questions.

This thread (believe it or not) wasn't meant to discuss the gay Muslim issue as much as it was to show that there are Muslims "outside" of the realm of what people perceive them to be.

There are Muslims that are gay that still attend Mosques, and pray five times a day, there are gay Imam's, there are gay Cleric's.

Accept it, or ignore it, but please stop badgering me to give you answers to questions that I don't have.

Thanks...................

 

It would have been much easier to just answer the question, and not constantly evade my questions, with: "YES, FreedomSeeker, I condemn Mohammad, and the Bible, in no uncertain terms, for saying to kill gays".
AND YOU'RE AN ATHEIST!! So just think how hard it is to get a RELIGIOUS person to say the morally-right thing! Wow.If atheists can't even condemn killing gays then we are in serious trouble in this world. Modern Secular Humanist care for our children more than followers of the Abrahamic faiths do because we are too moral to give them texts (from the all-knowing god, no less) that say to kill them if they turn out like god made them (gay, say.)

 

I ask the questions to point out how it's not just Islam that is insane, or Christianity, but all those who won't condemn religion for it's insanity. I proved my point incredibly well with your lack of an answer to my question.

Have a great day.

 

You know very well, as it has been repeated in here ad nauseam, that Jesus said and taught nothing as violent and hateful as Mohammed. We welcome Jews because they have the good sense not to resort to outdated teachings in a modern society.

 

The ones I have been hearing about lately have been isolated incidents of revenge for previous mass atrocities by Muslims.

 

Everyone knows now that Turkey is deliberately flooding Europe with Muslim refugees for his own purposes. It is not a refugee situation; it is a colonization masquerading as a refugee situation, and it will lead to more and more invasive behaviors by those who have no regard for Western culture or Westerners. Europeans are fools to put up with something that is being imposed by theorists in the UN regarding human migration and overly privileged SJW's that have the resources to relocate and have sufficient security no matter what happens to everyone else.

And it was not " my" invasion of Iraq; it was engineered by a cabal I voted against consistently. If Saddam had had the good sense not to lie about his military capabilities those of us in the US against war for profit might have been able to prevent it.

 

Jesus did not teach that unpleasant things be done to non-Christians; you must be digging around the Old Testament again.

 

Your link no longer works. I found a Wiki article explaining that the Christian militias began as self defense units (obviously, to resist attacks by nomadic Muslims):

"The anti-balaka militias originally formed in the 1990s as village self-defense forces.[6][7] Some militiamen are animist.[6]
In March 2013, President François Bozizé (a Christian) was overthrown in the Central African Republic Civil War by a mostly-Muslim rebel coalition known as Séléka. The leader of the Séléka, Michel Djotodia, then became the first Muslim president of the country.[8]
Djotodia announced the dissolution of the Séléka in September 2013,[9] but most of the militias refused to disband.[10] The Séléka and the anti-balaka engaged in a cycle of increasing violence,[10][11] including reprisal attacks on individuals believed to be civilians by many.[who?]
As many Christians had more settled lifestyles and many Muslims were nomadic, claims to the land were yet another dimension of the tensions.[12] In November 2013, the UN warned the country was at risk of spiraling into genocide,[13] was "descending into complete chaos".[14] and France described the country as "...on the verge of genocide".[15] On 2 December 2013, anti-balaka militiamen are suspected to have killed 12 people, including children, and wounded 30 others in an attack on the mostly-Muslim Fula in Boali, according to the government.[16] This was amidst the Central African Republic conflict under the Djotodia administration..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka

It is understandable that the political power grab by a Muslim to overthrow a Christian leader would result in unrest and more violence. The Muslims started it.

 

Yes; it's a core problem of Islam that Islam must deal with--but you can understand why countries less contaminated by the problem would be reluctant to open their door further to it.

A start would be to identify the sects which do and do not pander to the violence, but even you, a non-Muslim sympathizer, are reluctant to do so--and that is only the first necessary step!

Regarding your problems with empathy, you might find it beneficial to read up on problem ownership. Many of us resisting further Muslim immigration simply do not wish to further own the problems that develop from the violence within Islamic teachings.

I don't consider the problem with Islam to be a racial one, although some like to construe it that way for political reasons against those raising the issue. Frankly, though, with the problems we have been having with our own dysfunctional lower-end portion of blacks in the US we certainly do not need to import more such people.

 

Obviously not, for otherwise they'd have to throw themselves off the tall buildings...

 

"YES, FreedomSeeker, I condemn Mohammad, and the Bible, in no uncertain terms, for saying to kill gays".

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"YES, FreedomSeeker, I condemn Mohammad, and the Bible, in no uncertain terms, for saying to kill gays".

 

I was with you all the way up until your last comment about: "dysfunctional lower-end portion of blacks in the US we certainly do not need to import more such people"

I must tell you that this disturbs me greatly, and has "altered" my opinion of you.

I'm starting to see a pattern here, and it's not looking good. (from my end)

Obviously you have some deeper "personal" issues going on here so I think I'll bow out at this point.

I don't see the world through your prism, and I'm not sure it healthy for anyone to have the views you do.

Good Evening..............

 

No country needs an ever-increasing minority composed of people willing to abandon their families so free government payments can be obtained, particularly when the excuse made is skin color and then racist comments by the more intelligent cause the less able ones to start killing police.

My "personal issue" is that I am tired of throwing tax money on the problem and then having offensive comments when I say so made by sententious idiots that think everything can be boiled down to oversimplified issues they can emote about.

Trump may be the best thing that has happened to Islam in the last thousand or so years.

 

It may not be helpful to identify 'sects' as the problem. A lot of young radicalised muslims in the west don't come from any particular sect, many come from families that are reasonably well integrated and the radicalisation process comes from online exposure. The same is true of young converts who join extremist groups.

it depends what you think you are fighting, but I would think it would be more helpful to identify what people who become radicalised have in common, than assuming that all people who belong to one group or another are a potential risk.

From my own perspective, I used to think wahabbis were all pretty .. puritan in their interpretation of islam, but contact and experience has taught me that this assumption is incorrect.

 

seriously, the same applies to any of thr abrahanic religion, and a few others besides.

most likely you will find that a similar proportion of any group are gay. If they live in a more conservative society they try to override their sexuality, or engage in furtive relationships. If they live in a more tolerant and accepting society, they are more likely to try to be themselves, although many will still not be openly gay.

For many people from more traditional cultures including many muslims (but not all, as there are quite a few cultures with more relaxed attitudes about sexuality) moving to the west, or growing up in the west, is the most important factor in enabling them to be who they are.

 

Then who were all those men I was (*)(*)(*)(*)ing in the bath houses?

 

Rubbish!

People who live in conflict zones are fleeing conflict. So would you.

people often don't stay in the first destination because the conditions are bad, and they continue on their journey to find a better place, especially if they know one exists. So would you.

Syrian kurds especially would want to move on.

basically people want safety and a decent life.

I am sure the same applies to you, unless you are not really human.

Re iraq invasion: I think you will find a lot of the lies were on the other foot