How much of Palestine should the Arabs get back? - <MOD WARNING>

I'm saying that Israel needs defensible borders. These are demonstrably of high defensive value.

I think it tells us that the people in Gaza are not mature enough to be given responsibility. The international community shouldn't give support to such a people.

You mean security checks, fences and walls and such? Well, it's needed to defend against terrorists.

are you saying terrorism is a legitimate tactic? This you must answer.

That doesn't mean they can't keep the peace, but it means they are unlikely to do so.

 

If you have read my posts in this thread, you see that I am not a fan of the palestinians... BUT, I find this blind loyalty to Israel to be ridiculous. Why exactly is Israel your greatest ally? They done plenty of spying against you.. Have they helped you more than the UK?

Why is it that so many peoples, who do not live in israel or palestine, not anywhere near the holy land, so strongly pick one side over the other? Why is it that we have a canadian and a scotsman who side with the palestinians so much that they'd want to see Israel wiped off the map? Why is it that an american is such a fan of israel that he wants to even join their army? i find this very odd. For me, this is just a simply matter of two foreign peoples having a conflict in a far away place. This doesn't really concern me, and I don't care strongly one way or the other.

 

Just sounds like a bunch of miserly hacks who don't want to hire Americans at a decent wage to me, they're looking at for their own interests, at the demise of ours.

 

Has Israel even fought in a war with the U.S.A?

 

Lol no explanation I see. Where's your loyalty to us your true allies?

 

Oh I see, well I am sure yours is an informed opinion backed by evidence and or personal knowledge of the realities of the agricultural business in America.

 

Who's picking up the tab for illegal immigrants? that's right we are because they cost us money.

Why don't we send the bill to the employers of illegal immigrants instead of us, that should change things very quickly.

 

Indeedand it can have them on its own soil surely.

Surely it just tells you that this conflict is tricky. Hamas are no more terrible than Israelis.

No one anywhere had a problem with Israel defending it's own border

It's no worse than settlements.

Would you admit that Israelis are equally unlikely to keep the peace?

 

I don't want to see Israel wiped at all. If you check this poll you'll see most people agree with me the reasonable people.

We are the good guys here.

 

Israel indeed took the qassams launched by Hamas as an act of war, and military response ensued. The problem here, is that Palestine doesn't have an army - so the Israelis brought their "war" onto civilians. When they faced even a mediocre army, like Hizbollah, the IDF suddenly didn't look so good.

Rocket attacks exists since the wall.

It would bother orthodox zionists even more that it would bother Palestinians. It is clear that the hardcore zionists (and they have big inluence in Israel) don't want no impure goyim living on the land God gave the Khazars. They don't want to share it, no matter what they can say to save face.

Let me guess; being more civilised you would rather kill them safely with artillery fire or air bombing. Am I right?

If I were so depressed as to consider suicide, yes, making some of my tormentors pay would undoubtely pop up in there. You too. It's funny what desperation can make people do.

In fact. the Jews themselves used terror well before the Palestinians ever did: they did attempt at the Nazi party in pre-WWII germany - an act, I am sure, warranted all the atrocities they were subjected to, if I think like your side thinks. The also bombed the King David hotel and their British benefactors, making more than 90 deads. Was that a declaration of war against the UK?

 

no.. it's the terrain itself which has the defensive value.. the strategic value because of geography..

Is Israel using suicide bombers?

Then why are people complaing about walls, discrimination and "apartheid" and such?

Okay.. So you think that building a house on someone else's land is as bad as blowing up civilians? Honestly, that is a very disgusting thing to say. People like you should be monitored by the government.

No.

Well, one canadian then. But still, it's odd that people all over the world care so much about THIS one conflict in the world, when there are hundreds others going on... What is it that's so special about israel and palestine that makes you people care so much? I don't get it.

 

What do you mean? If palestine didn't have any armed forces, what did they wage war with?

If Israel didn't have a capable army there would be an Israel today.

I'm quite sure that's not true.

Well, as I've said before.. You can't make everyone happy. So in this case, I don't care what orthodox jews think. Israel can't and shouldn't cleanse itself of arabs. The best solution is arab regions.

yes, because I wouldn't want to discredit my movement by using terrorism.

yeah but would you target civilians?? That's the important distinction. Suicide attacks against military targets aren't really a moral problem.

 

If the government comes and bull dozes your home and is doing that to your friends and neighbors, will you stand by with your family and watch the fires burning your possessions without taking action?

Seriously. I want to know.

We had the cowboys in OR get upset simply because the government owns too much land (in their opinion). They got a lot of support - including armed support.

If the government were to start bull dozing their homes, booting their wives and kids to the street while demolishing their possessions, would you be upset if they offered armed resistance???

Again - I WANT TO KNOW.


As for that last of yours, the IDF has stated that the Palestinian President Abbas is their primary ally in security.

 

Yet you think a big wall close its own soil has helped it's security tremendously. While you want it to have borders much further than that.

No its using much more powerful weapons.

It's the use of other people's land that people complain of. If Israelis have all these things in Israel that's not a problem.

Of course. Settlements are land theft that affect the lives of millions for generations. It's much worse.
People like you who think settlements are not so bad should be monitored don't you think?

Israel has a terrible track record of keeping to agreements.

Good question but why do only the pro Palestinians have to answer why they are so interested?

For me it's because it's a real international touch paper issue and easily accessible for Westerners to the issues because we pay for it in money and receive the fallout.

 

Rocks, stones, home made missiles loaded with fertilizer, home made explosives and the occasional contraband rifle. Weapons of resistance fighters rather than an army's.

This capable army was supplied by WWII allies and faced Arabs that the Brits disarmed a few year prior to the foundation of Israel. It was also manned by experienced Soviet soldiers from WWII (the zionists themselves).

Check it out. I'm not saying that there were no missiles prior to the wall - only that it made the qassam the new standard of Palestinian activism.

Once I was not far from thinking like you... But short of a fall of the zionist regime, Jews and Arabs can't live together in this precise part of the Levant. There's too much anger accumulated, so much in fact that a single, individual and independant incident (say, a Jew/Arabs that open fire in a mall, killing Arabs/Jews) will throw the whole thing to the ground.

And it must pass by the fall of Israel's zionist regime rather that that of Hamas - let me explain why:

First, eliminating Hamas will simply make that it will be replaced by another likewise movement, maybe not even from Palestine. As long as there will be anger and resentment, there will be resistance.

Second, Israel is a failure. Yes, they can squash the whole region all by themselves, but still they wouldn't win. In fact they already loss, and what they're doing right now - stealing palestinian land daily - is merely an attempt to disguise that fact. How can I say that Israel failed? Well, the had the initiative for more than 60 years (what Palestine decide nobody cares, because nobody cares about the beggars) now. That's 4 solid generations. And yet it isn't closer to a solution in Palestine. It's been more than 60 years of war, aggression and provocation.

Israel is a grafted hand that thinks it could reject the whole host body. Every one of Israel's neighbors hate them to their guts, no matter what their elites, corrupted by US money may say.

Finally, Israel will also fail in demographics; Palestinians are reproducing faster than them, even in Israel proper. It won't be very long when there will be an Arabic majority in Israel. Short of a genocide, Israel won't stay a Jewish state.

So, the only way Jews and Arabs co-exist, like the did before zionism, is to eliminate zionism. Or a least, this particular form of zionism, because zionism made in the respect of the native, I would approve.

What's the difference between targeting civilians with a howitzer or targeting them with a bomb belt? I'll tell you what is the difference: In the former case, the aggressor still lives.

Maybe if they had an actual army that would be comparable to the IDF, the Palestinians wouldn't be forced to attack soft targets. Israel, however, does have the military superiority and yet they target civilians (not partisans), such as the two children on the Gaza beach. In fact, Israel killed much much more Palestinian civilians (elders, women, children) that the Palestinians ever dreamed of.

And anyway, might I ask, where does that horror for indiscriminate killing in war come from? Killing or abusing civilians has always been of use in pretty much all wars, and on every side - that's why war is hell. I am just surprised you express repulsion at a suicide bomber but think that shelling civilian persons is fine.

 

I just want to emphasize this point.

The conflict will not be resolved until the underlying issues of the occupation are addressed - until Palestinians are fully represented and safe from ethnic cleansing, until Israel ends its war on Gaza which continues today.

Killing people claimed to be Hamas will not solve anything at all. There's never been a people on earth who would accept what Israel is doing.


So, Israel continues war on Gaza and carries out ethnic cleansing in West Bank and then they whine when they get opposition!

It's enough to make me sick.

 

What the heck does "Arab region" mean?

I seriously hope you are not calling for apartheid.

 

The Wall is NOT being built for security.

Look at a map.

If you are interested in security you don't run your wall up the valley bottoms while leaving the high ground. You don't make it serpentine deep into territory that does NOT belong to you.

The Wall is PURELY a method of capturing territory.

The IDF has stated multiple times that Palestinian President Abbas is their primary partner in peace and security. Abbas created his unity government causing Gaza leadership to sign on without receiving ANY seats and only after signing that Israel is a permanent state (which they have long stated anyway) and a limitation to peaceful means only.

Yet YOU come along and causally suggest what Palestine will or won't do?

 

None. The Israelis won it fair and square, and the Palestinians have proven they would only use any gains as a means to kill more Israelis and push for even more territory.

Additionally, there are only 14.2 million Jews on the planet compared tp over 1.6 billion Muslims, so it doesn't even make sense as a population balancing issue. It would be essentially genocidal in nature, Considering that Jews and Muslims both originated from the same basic spot on the planet and that the Jewish religion developed first, it is clear that Islam is basically genocidal in nature and should not be enabled in its aggressions.

 

How can it be genocidal in nature when most Jews live elsewhere?

 

Usually, when a territory is conquered, it is incorporated into the invaders' land, complete with its population which are made citizen of the said conquerers. In the occupied territories, we see something different: The zionists do want the land they conquered, but not its inhabitants because, you see, they're infidel goyim. If they would have made these Palestinians citizens of Israel, with full rights, I don't think anyone would have made such a fuss for so long.

I could just as easily say that Judaism is ethnocentric, manipulative and violent in nature, and back it up with some juicy Torah passages. Makes no sense whatsoever. Islam was okay before we (the occident) started meddling in their affairs. It is not a matter of religion, but social justice. The Arabs in the ME could have been shintoists for that matter, they would be pissed just the same in the face of the raw deal they got form us, the zionists and their corrupted leaders.

It doesn't make any difference. the name we are giving to our legendary bearded man in the skies.

 

No, that's not what usually happens, and it would retarded of the conquerors if they did that.

 

What a ridiculous poll. The only viable option in NOT there: NONE

 

I am not a terrorist such as the Hamas/Palestinians. Your irrelevant question poses no true answer.

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Israel has our greatest respect.

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Yes, everyday Israel, the US, and many other brave nations fight the war on terrorism.

 

Why did Israel get your greatest respect when we have done so much more for and with you?

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Really? What does happen?