The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America

You blame that on religion, or on man? Be fair.

 

I blame it on the followers, not source. for indeed they are not what they claim to be.

 

Seems you are attempting to equate my view of religion with your view of science. I don't doubt your pastor sounds all religiony so you throw a few bucks in the collection plate on the few Sundays a year you go.

(as an aside - Luv the speaking in tongues bit. a real side splitter.)_

 

Nope, just the similarity of your view between religion and science.

 

nope. totally different animals. but its no surprise you attempt to conflate a belief in the natural with belief in the supernatural.

 

I think you're being a little hard. Ask the next Christian you see, or any Christian here, or any Christian on a religious forum, what they "claim to be."

They're mostly bumbling along as best they can, sinning on the way. Obviously many will claim to be "saved," and I as a Catholic have a problem with that.

 

I don't ascribe malicious intent to these followers, merely that their "faith" is not something they default to in living their daily lives. I think this video actually expresses this sentiment.

 

Usually someone who doesn't believe in a religious god at all, but allows that there may be, by an extremely low probability, some sort of other god that no one knows about or understands.

 

I don't think there's any harm in playing along with a myth for cultural and moral reasons. Judaism helps Jews know who they are and where they came from and provides answers to just about any question of philosophy (in the sense of telling us how we should live).

Seems to me better than floating along in pointless atheism. It offers nothing positive that I can see.

When your child says, "Did Jesus really rise from the dead?" you've got a serious decision to make, but you can express doubt and even disbelief about the miracles without throwing out everything that Christianity stands for. Or you can tell the child it's a metaphor.

What does the atheist tell the child who asks "What's the point of living?"

 

I don't know about other atheists, but I told my kids:

The point of living is to experience, to learn, to grow, to love, to laugh, to share, to dream, to affect positive change within yourself, your family and your community.

When my kids asked about the resurrection I stated very very clearly that NO he did not actually rise from the dead like a zombie, that the story is metaphorical in that upon his death, his disciples kept his memory and teachings alive (with many personal embellishments thrown in to add some sizzle to the sales pitch) .

Atheism is far far from pointless. Rejection of man made religious dogma does not mean that the wisdom and insights afforded believers within their religion's dogma are exclusive to them alone. I consider every formal religion to contain considerable accumulated wisdom wrt to the human condition. In that regard every religion is the same.

 

Good answer. What do you tell the child who asks, "Where did all this come from?"

Personally, I mumble something about the Big Bang and hope they don't press the issue with: "But Dad, where did the stuff come from that the Big Bang hurled in to the far reaches of the Cosmos?" or "What was there before the Big Bang?"

 

I told them my own beliefs. (paraphrased more or less)

"The universe as we know it began with the big bang. What came before this beginning is subject of much scientific hypothesizing, but since there is at this time no conceivable method of obtaining any information prior to the big bang, it all amounts to Serious Scientific Wild Arse Guesses.

Religious people believe that god created the big bang, although the less informed reject the big bang theory because they can't understand the science, nor the ability to think so abstractly. God existed before the universe so he could create this universe and therefore he did it because we are here. "

I also explain the Big bang theory in simple terms (not entirely accurate) that at the moment of the "bang" all of the energy of that exists in the universe was created and began a complex process of inflation (just like a beachball) and in that process energy was convered to matter. Within a very short period of time, all of the atoms that make up the universe were created and distributed thru this inflation. Which invariable lead to a discussion of cosmology and the creation of elements, stars, solar systems and galaxies.

I have four kids, and the discussions around the dinner table were most enjoyable. I was able to teach my children how to correctly formulate arguments and articulate them with a modicum of precision. How to analyse new information, recognize inferences and process deductions. And just as important how to defend one's personal beliefs in a logical factual manner (logical fallacies and rhetorical tricks, notwithstanding).

Open honest communications, no question too soon, too hard, too complicated to answer (although things really do get lost in translating down to children).

 

Would love to have been there when they asked you where babies come from. I danced around that one a bit, and then my wife, from the "tell it like it is school," said this:

"the man puts his cucumber in the ladies cucumber and then a seed comes out and then 9 months later a baby comes out."

They knew what a cucumber was from potty training.

Hope I didn't violate a rule there. Anyway, pretty sure the kids went and obtained additional details comparing notes with their friends.

 

"Right, but what's your hypothesis, dad?"

 

I don't have one since I am not a cosmologist, nor theortical physicist but if I had to choose, I'd probably choose the Multiverse hypothesis. I am absolutely fine with not knowing the answer to what came before because we have an abundance of scientific knowledge to to know what came since.

 

I never used euphemisms with the kids. A penis is a penis and a vagina is a vagina. to be honest, I left the sex education of my three daughters to my wife, a move I was forever grateful for when the girls were teenagers. I took on the task for my son, to which I understand he was forever grateful when he was a teenager.

 

I agree about Coulter. They should have let her speak. That way people could have actually heard, first hand, the radical views of a major Trump supporter.

 

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There is religious fundamentalism and the are people who have a fundamental understanding of and belief in science.

The difference is that the religious fundamentalists believe in the writings of ignorant people of 2000-6000 years ago as compared to all the scientific knowledge gained in the interim.

I'll enjoy my spare ribs and lobster while you continue to be awed by the appearance of spotted cattle.

 

In the 20th Century, science, technology and manufacturing made America great. In the 21st Century, the Countries that lead in scientific achievement will be the great ones. Having an anti-science religious fundamentalist Secretary of Education is a threat to the future of America. Having an anti-science religious President is a threat to the future of America.

 

In other words; an agnostic.

agnostic atheist is an oxymoron.

 

There is a lot of harm. Belief in supernatural nonsense leads more belief in supernatural nonsense. The followers of Jim Jones were not atheists. The Heavens Gate followers were not atheists. Scientologists are not atheists.

That's your problem. When one thanks Jesus for a beautiful sunset one cannot fully grasp the true wonder of a beautiful sunset. Or a night sky seen from a totally dark place. Or waves crashing onto a rocky coast. Or......

Or you can begin to tell the child that Jesus was not really a person and that a Jesus did not really rise from the dead. Do your adult children still believe in Santa Claus?

Life. Enjoying life. Leading a meaningful life. Providing joy to other people. Reveling in the mysteries of the universe. Learning. Teaching. Sharing.......

What does the Christian tell the child who asks "What's the point of living?" "Well, if you are bad you will spend eternity in Hell. If you are good you will spend eternity in Heaven."

You better hope the child never asks "Wouldn't that get boring after the first few billion years?" After all, how many times do you want to get a hug from your aunt Emma?

 

Well, my child, we don't know the answer to that yet. We may never know the answer.

But you are not the first to ask that question. Many, many years ago, when humans first began thinking and speaking they also asked "Where did all this come from?" The answer given was GodDidIt.

Then people wondered why their little farms were overrun by locusts. The answer given was GodDidIt. Then people wondered why God sent locusts to overrun their little farms. The answer given was that God was angry with the people.

Over time we have learned that GodDidIt was nothing more than superstitious silliness.

Not knowing can lead to two different outcomes:

1. Saying GodDidIt.
2. Investigating and learning.

We have progressed because a lot of people choose #2. Sadly, a lot of people still believe #1.​

 

Ladies have cucumbers??!?

 

Since AGW is your new religion, my comment stands.

 

Its to signify a complete disbelief in all accepted definitions of god, including all religious concepts.

Yes, in a purely philosophical sense it's just 'agnostic', but many religious people assume that an agnostic is not completely sure that their God (The God of Abraham for instance) doesn't exist. An agnostic atheist has as little doubt that religious Gods might exist as they have in magical unicorns.