10 years of Ukrainian coup d’état. Did the West provoke it?

Why do you discuss it in epic length at all? It was Russian war propaganda to sell their dirty game. If only 10% of all this nonsense was true and the true will of the Ukraine would be to go with Russia, they would have welcomed Russian tropps with flowers, instead of bullets. So obviously all of that was bullshit, the Ukranians dont want Russia to control its politics.

 

The paranoid indulge themselves with the delusion of a pervasive, nebulous, omnipotent "deep state," of course.

 

Not at all. Much of my information comes from actual Russian friends, admittedly ones here precisely because they oppose Putin, but with friends and relatives still in Russia (and in one case, Ukraine). Where are you getting all of your information about this from?

Again, I am in no way saying the US government in general or the current administration in particular don't have some major specific and systematic issues. What I'm challenging the idea that the Russia system is some much better or than Putin is some kind of hard done by democratic martyr.

 

This is not world war 3...lol.

 

It does have democracy we do have the ability to elect Trump as much as the Democrats are trying to usurp democracy unfortunately for them and those who hate Trump we do have democracy.

 

Here's a question, who started the Vietnam War?
Was it the US or Vietnam or something else?

It happens to be the same as the war in Ukraine.

 

Again, I think its pretty obvious for what he is preparing with his armament. The attack on NATO territory will very likely be incoming in the next years. You dont burn the brides like he does, if you are not going all the way.

 

He MIGHT get a nuke in or two on America. But Russia would get glassed. Russia is not in any kind of advantage with it's chess pieces to start that kind of conflict. They are literally surrounded by NATO and the Queen is over yonder out of reach. There is no win here for Russia taking on NATO.

 

I dont think he will start a nuclear attack on the US, he will not committ suicide on purpose. An attack on Latvia with conventional weapons is the most likely scenario. His bet will be that the US doesnt intervene and if the US doesnt Western Europe doesnt dare as well. Its incredibly risky, finally I dont see it as all too likely, but I dont see it as completely hopeless.

By the way, I think Russia is pretty much done anyway, there was no win for it taking on Ukraine, there will be no win for it taking on the NATO afterwards or simultanously. Even in the rather unlikely event he will be finished with Ukraine, then takes on the Baltics and Poland without US or Western European intervention, even given he wins this wars (non of these mentioned factors is obvious) and conquers his beloved old SU back, this Empire will collapse sooner or later.

The dangerous part in it is, he seems to be unable to evaluate his chances realistically.

I am convinced: Russia is done! It was done in that moment when it full scale invaded Ukraine with the intention to conquer Kiev, burn the bridges to the West, switched its economy to an all out war economy (loosing hundreds of young man each day in battle, loosing at least the same amount as refugess who dont wanna be conspricted). I think it will either collapse completely and fall apart or at least have to save its losses trying to go back to normal again and counting what damage is done they will never walk away from as a superpower anymore.

The question is how much can they destroy on their way into shitholeland? At the moment it can put out much more artillery shells than all of NATO by ignoring all other aspects of his economy, which will take permanent damage. Thats is temporary plus, overwhelming quantity in most military equipments. IF the NATO takes a combined effort to stop him, his overwhelming numbers will look ridiculous pretty soon. Even in the scenario that Trump isnt willing to participate in NATO the EU memberstates alone could ourproduce him big times under some more efforts. These are the big "IF"s. In the scenario none of it happens, US forces leave Europe, EU memberstates are too scared to take any action against it, there is imo a chance he could re-concquer Eastern Europe. That doesnt change my opinion, I doubt this Empire could survive on the long run, but the damage would be done then.

 

Are you suggesting the Deep State does not exist?

 

What is the nefarious "deep state" that controls the world you live in, and how does it do so?

 

Though I've never visited Russia, a brother of mine actually published a small newsletter about Russia back in the 70s, before Putin. He visited there several times. I have only worked and socialized with a few Russians during my life.

I get my information about Russia and Putin from life experiences, books, Oliver Stone documentaries, and things like that. I absolutely avoid mainstream media, though I do read only headlines of MSM/state media sources.

If one is somewhat informed about history of Ukraine and Russia, if one understands the belligerent nature of the US government and its propaganda aides, one cannot help but see Russia and Putin in a favorable light. While Russia defends its territory and people, the US government has abandoned our borders and facilitated being overrun with illegal immigrants.

Sorry, I'm digressing. Russia holds the high moral ground because the facts are public and on the Russian side. NATO brought this war.

 

The answer to that is likely more subtle, more complex, than you are capable of perceiving. More accurately, willing to perceive.

 

Please share your privileged information.

How does your "deep state" function? Who is in your "deep state"? How do they communicate and coordinate whatever it is they do? How does one become a member of your "deep state"? How do the members of your "deep state" escape being exposed as members of your "deep state"? Do members of the "deep state" have a secret handshake or, maybe, wear silly hats to identify one another?

Who told you about your "deep state"?

 

So you falsely accuse me of being indoctrinated by MSM because I disagree with some of your conclusions, yet you essentially admit to limiting yourself to sources that will support your established opinions. You can read media without blindly believing everything it says but still get lots of relevant information (even from what you believe it is saying that is misleading or outright false).

And incidentally, just reading headlines is worse than not reading it at all. The headlines are the least accurate and most misleading of any media source because they're designed to catch your attention and draw you in rather than actually inform (even if that is the honest purpose of the article itself).

I am somewhat informed about those things but I disagree with some of your conclusions. You've not really explained why you think Putin is so amazing and US leaders so terrible, you're just asserting those statements as facts.

And when you keep bringing up irrelevancies like immigration in the US on a thread about the conflict in Ukraine, it suggests that, like all too many Americans, your focus is really your domestic politics rather than the realities for the people actually suffering on the ground there.

 

But the chances of an attack on Latvia escalating towards nuclear war makes it a dumb move, specifically because of the Russian chess pieces currently being at an extreme disadvantage.

Latvia is not worth that.

 

It is easier to fool a man than it is to explain to him how he has been fooled. I knew at age 30, 1977, that the US government almost never tells the truth. I was greatly influenced by what we learned from The Pentagon Papers. Having done my year in RVN, I knew the government to be mendacious.

Things have only become worse in that regard since 1977

 

I see where you are coming from, but you know, what is also a stupid move? To start an all out attack on Ukraine in 2022. So I dont feel too secure that Putin doesnt make a move which I consider a stupid move.

 

Let's talk about Russia.

No suspicious activity in all Putins political foes and adversaries just randomly dying?

Lol. Really?

 

France.

 

Sounds like appeasement.

 

I knew it! It's the Italian satellites isn't it? https://www.axios.com/2022/06/23/miller-defense-department-italy-trump-election

 

Even if all that is true, it still has nothing to do with your blinkered support for Putin. Why couldn't he and the Russian government (past or present) be just as untrustworthy as the US ones?

 

Yes, that's an overall driving force, but the actual trigger,

can be easily looked up on Wikipedia, under Gulf of Tonkin,
it seems pretty clear with the benefit of hindsight and
plenty of time for people to come forward with what they
knew, that both the US Navy and the Vietnamese
coastal defense were telling the truth, that neither of
them fired the first shot.

 

He could be just as untrustworthy as his counterparts, but judging by his actions over the years he is not. He protects his country's borders and people, for example, even as our borders are overrun with undocumented individuals. Putin has supported the return of the jury trial to his country, even as our current White House resident has enthusiastically supported the Star Chamber trials for the J6 defendants.

By their actions, comparing and contrasting, Putin has defended his country and its people, even as POTUS Imposter Biden has ordered his AG to go after a variety of innocent citizens.