Michigan school shooter’s parents sentenced to 10 to 15 years

Article from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/09/michigan-school-shooter-parents-sentencing
Quote:
The parents of a Michigan school shooter have each been sentenced to between 10 and 15 years in prison for their role in an attack that killed four students in 2021 in a case that has broken new ground as the US seeks to tackle its years-long epidemic of school shootings.

Jennifer and James Crumbley appeared in court on Tuesday as the first parents convicted in an American mass school shooting. During their trials prosecutors said “tragically simple actions” by both parents could have stopped the catastrophe.


That might concentrate some minds.....

 

This absolutely infuriates me. If these parents are complicit of something they did not commit or even thought was going to happen at all then why wouldn’t a gun store be complicit, or how about the government for even allowing the background check to pass? If I were in any sort of government position I would pardon or push for a pardon. These parents did nothing wrong, the kid did. Seriously, if this makes one complicit in murder then how many people could really be named? Friends, family, the seller, the government, the school for even allowing him there?

 

I agree with holding parents financially liable for the damages their kids do, like vandalism, but sending them to prison for murder they did not commit......that's another story.

 

I have to agree, 10 - 15 years is too much for what their child did

 

agree

 

or judges that let repeat offenders off easy, and they go on a killing spree

no one know for sure someone is gonna commit a crime like this

they were way over sentenced, so I would support a Pardon too

 

I was one of many children that grew up with access to guns. I wonder if this kid was on psychiatric drugs.

 

You and me both. I had unsupervised access to several firearms. And I was diagnosed with ADD in the third grade and put on Ritalin but I never in my entire life thought it would be a good idea to take a gun to school and shoot the people that I didn't like

 

GOOD!!! About time parents were held to account in these situations. They have demonstrated themselves as being dysfunctional parents who refused to get their kid help when he cried out for it. Of course the gun issue is a factor too. Totally irresponsible.

 

The difference is that this kid had serious emotional / psychological problems. He should never have had access to weapons. Just as important he should have had help, but when he asked for it....apparently his "dad" told him to basically "suck it up".
That is just IGNORANCE & NEGLIGENCE on the parents part.

 

I probably have dealt with more hard core criminals than just about anyone on this board. I spent four hours taking the deposition (in a civil forfeiture matter) of the biggest cocaine lord in the history of SW Ohio and watched him lie for four hours (I had hours of wire taps of him setting up hits, coke deals etc but the DEA and FBI were not ready to arrest at that time). Most of these mopes-you can start with the parents as the source of the problem/ One of the first federal carjacking cases involved a hard core gangbanger assisted by two 14 or so year old kids. One of the kids was the son of a GS 15 and a mother who was the head of a major public school. Net income well over 300K but the kid wanted to be a "gangsta" and the parents never made any effort to deal with his aspirations to be a "bad ass"

 

It is easy for us to armchair quarterback this case. What if it would have been a car instead of a gun? Where's the kid told his dad.... I'm going to get in that truck and I'm going to go run over as many people as I can?

And Dad just laughed it off and thought it was just teenage angst..... Would we still want to prosecute mom and dad?

 

Sorry to cut your post off but I was reading this and I have to pull rank on you here turtle Man...

Though I have not been in trouble in nearly two decades..... I spent seven out of 9 years of my life in and out of correctional facilities three different times.... And I mean state prisons, specifically.

I would get out from one sentence and maybe stay out the longest 18 months...


But I spent lots of time living and walking amongst them.... Not that I didn't fit in at the time....

The only difference between your average inmate and your average citizen is that the inmate was not smart enough or was too balls to the wall..... To get away with that with which what they were doing.

And then of course there is the citizen who is a very law abiding individual who always comes to a complete stop and uses turn signals regardless of whether or not anyone is behind them.

But the vast majority of us here, know that we have all committed some sort of felonies even if we haven't been prosecuted and incarcerated for such.

 

OK you lived with mopes-I kept them in prison. But I reject the oft repeated claim that citizens constantly commit felonies daily. I know what a felony is. never come close to committing a felony. Nor has almost everyone I know

 

I'm afraid I wandered away from my point....
I don't mean that everyone commits felonies all the time..... Only that it is not uncommon that some people have done such in their life and have got away with it.

Please don't get me wrong, because I don't mean everyone. I can't even remember the last time I might have potentially committed one myself.

I'm just saying that if everyone who ever committed a felony was caught and convicted.... We would have far more prisons than we do now.

I realized I shouldn't have used the word "all".... I should have said many of us.

And also having lived with mopes for so long.... Changed my view of human nature. So if any of you progressives reading this like to call me racist for no reason.... Just know that I don't hold my views devoid of life experience. I try to see the good in every person but some people make it very difficult to do.

If you had walked the same path that I have walked..... You wouldn't think that everyone is composed of such roses and that their farts smell great.

 

If the kid acted on it and ended up killing people.........then yes. Kids with psych problems don't usually say something like that once........for attention or whatever. There is usually a pattern to their expression's of anger, impulsiveness, depression etc. In this case , the kid had asked for help..... and was literally shrugged off. That is very poor parenting. And there is probably a LOT more that we don't know about those parents. Parents should KNOW their kids and be observant for behavioral changes that are negative. If they can't handle the problems the kid is presenting , then get help. It has gotten so crazy that some are more concerned over an embryo than they are over the kids that already exist. and need al the loving parenting they can get.

 

You have some good points but let me remind you of some things....

Lots of parents nowadays don't even take responsibility for the fact that they have children and they expect the government to raise their kids just by the virtue of the fact that they exist.

My mother tried to get me help when I was a child which is why I was diagnosed with ADD and put on Ritalin in the third grade.... I went through counseling and such. I was diagnosed to have a pretty significant psychological problem.

But I never went and made bombs or shot up the school or anything like that. And eventually my mother washed her hands of me and went to live her own life thousands of miles away.

Which is okay.... Mama tried, right?

But my point is not my own specific case but that's just an example....

My point really is.... At what point do you point the finger at a parent and say that they did not do enough? Who is qualified to sit there and make that judgment?

I know I'm not and I don't think you are and I don't think anyone in the criminal justice system is.

 

A couple of things come to mind. You got help when young. Regardless of how the relationship with your mom ended... that help was instrumental in how you handled life and issues. Not everyone is proneto so much rage that they resort to killing others to demonstrate how desperate they are. If this kid had help earlier...... it would have prevented the tragedy........as if he needed to be hospitalized thatwould have been an option.
(An aside: but I commend you for receiving the assistance you needed as that likely contributed to making you the responsible person you are.
As I have worked in the filed.... I truly understand what you are saying ... and empathize as one human to another.)
The other reality is that not everyone is built to be effective parents. These should probably not have kids. Having a family is a big responsibility. In today's world of multi demands from various directions... the challenges are even greater and the kids can fall thogth the cracks in priority.
BTW: you too raise some good points. Makes for a good discussion.

 

I do know enough to know in this life that I never needed to have kids and to this day I still don't have any.

But in many ways I am still a very screwed up individual. But I am a very logically functioning individual and as far as that goes..... I am not a danger to myself or anyone else and I fit in, in my particular place in society.

But by no means will I ever be normal and I don't want to be.... Being a normal individual is one of my biggest fears in life.

I'm kind of sad that I never had a son to raise, but on the other hand.... I don't know what I would have done if I'd have had to raise one just like the way I was...

 

Yes, you seem smart enough to know yourself as well as you seem quite intuitive. Sometimes the "idea" of children is romantiized and removed from the reality of what actually rearing a child means. I have no kids either. By choice. In a way my career included a fair bit of nurturing and took a lot of energy ........ I am impressed with your personal insight and self awareness........ as that is so important as one navigates life's challenges. Knowing your fit in your society and personal network is also very healthy.

 

I like to say that no one is where they are by accident..... I spent my entire life arriving at exactly the moment and place where I sit at this time.

And I'm not going to retire rich... In fact it's possible I could die in poverty in a tent somewhere... And I'm perfectly okay with that.

But if I do retire in a tent, you can bet it will be somewhere in a warm coastal region where I will eat like a king every night from The sweat of my brow and my cast net and my fishing rod

And if ( I should say when, not if ) the day comes where I just can't provide for myself anymore or they diagnose me with some sort of terminal illness....? There will be a short obituary that few people will notice

 

The important thing that comes through in your words is that you are realistic, down to earth, and have the ability to maintain your independence (self reliance) . Your possible retirement plans sound pretty good !!! IF you retire.

 

The jugde is right. Every owner of a weapon carries the responsibility to take care of it. And that means: Always keep the weapons in a closed tresor and always keep the ammunition separately. In my opinion that's the least to do.

 

For the most part any fool or nutcase can have children.
If you bring a child into the world it comes with responsibilities doesn’t it?

 

In the case of the six year old kid who shot his teacher--the adults that missed the signs or allowed the child access to the gun are being charged for Child Neglect. They not being charged for assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted murder. Or aiding and abetting or any other charges having to do with the act itself of the child shooting the teacher.

These individuals--the school official and mother, were simply charged with child neglect. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebony-...shooting-richneck-elementary-school-virginia/

I think child neglect is a more fitting charge for the Michigan School shooter's parents.

There unfortunately are a lot of children who have irresponsible parents, running the streets .......are they charged with anything as their kids murder, steal cars and do other crimes? I think we need to keep this law consistent and clear so that parents know what to expect.