Does the cost of the war in Ukraine exceed the benefits?

You are impotent in documenting your fake claims by citing any credible sources, but you would rather spew Putin's lies anyway.

You'll want to send Yanukovych a birthday card in a couple of months. You can address it c/o Kremlin.

 

ukraine's parliament failed to garner enough votes to impeach and remove Yanukovych. They didn't get the required 3/4 majority. Furthermore, even if they had, it was subject to judicial review. None of that happened.

That's not ****ing democracy, that's tyranny.

So spare me your fake news propaganda. It's really sad you don't have a clue about the 2014 Coup.

https://www.channel4.com/news/svoboda-ministers-ukraine-new-government-far-right

 

Ukraine never had operational control of those nuclear weapons.

 

Correct, they were controlled in Moscow the entire time. Long range, pointed at the West.

 

True, it's amazing what a difference true facts can make; but they usually don't change people's opinions.

One expert on that phenomena is Dr. Dan Ariely.

 

So , we bow down to King Putin? Is this how to Make America great again? We are so f***ing coward , we are so afraid of Nuclear war that we want to bow to King Putin and give “ half of the world” if he wants.

Sorry, I don’t want to make America that great. I like the America we have. F** putin and his f** war.

 

I'll leave you to your Putin-inspired fantasy.

The KGB thug has Yanukovych in storage in Russia, ready for puppet duty if Putin's GOP crackpots can manage the democracy's defeat.

 

True.

Russia did guarantee Ukraine's security.

 

The advice was for Ukraine to remain autonomous.

Aligning with NATO, building up an army of 680,000 NATO trained and equipped
troops,

informing Russia that Ukraine could host missiles just 330 miles from
Moscow pointing at Moscow -

initially these were to be anti missile systems but inspection would not be
permitted and the systems were originally designed for nuclear-capable
missiles and at substantial cost could be converted into them,

accepting weapons from the US and then firing the ammunition at Donetsk
on Feb 19 2022, five days before Russia moved some of the army into Ukraine

might have been in breach of the agreement with Russia.

I'm not trying to convince you, just that each side must be fairly represented.

 

So you actually think that there is a difference between the parties?

 

Ukraine? What "benefit" to the United States?

In order to answer that objectively, and honestly, you'd need to ask yourself what benefit Ukraine was to the United States prior to 2014 (when all this big "Maidan" revolution thing occurred in the first place).

The honest answer? Almost NOTHING. What did the United States import/export from and to Ukraine? What did Ukraine do for us that makes them so incredibly valuable now?

Oh, there's lots of 'altruistic' sentiment swimming around in this Ukrainian puddle of conjecture, but in terms of "benefit" to the United States, the answer is pretty clear....

 

Yes they did. It was not Putin in charge then though.

 

In charge of what?

Under the Budapest Memorandum, the Russian Federation provided security assurances to Ukraine in the form of promising to neither attack nor threaten attack them.

 

Putin was not in power when that agreement was initiated. Part of that agreement was also the US and NATO guaranteeing security for Ukraine.

 

Putin is and was bound by the Russian Federation's security assurances to Ukraine in the form of promising to neither attack nor threaten to attack it.

 

No, Russia should not have invaded Ukraine. It was both immoral and stupid of them. Had we reacted more strongly to the crises in Georgia and Crimea, maybe Putin wouldn't have been so bold. Yes, the whole world should support Ukraine to help stop Russian aggression and deter imperial ambitions of Russia, China, and whoever else. It's a challenge to the norms that have kept relative peace between superpowers. It stems largely from Putin's disrespect for the dignity and human rights of people in general but especially Ukrainians, and his paranoid delusions about the west.

 

Obviously Putin doesn’t care.

 

I'm sure there are things that are worth risking nuclear holocaust over. I just don't think Ukraine is one of them.

 

So Russia agreed to protect Ukraine from whom?

Pres. Putin made it clear in 2008 when NATO decided to move into
Ukraine, that Russia would not permit NATO troops and weapons on
Russia's border.

Ukraine built up an army of 680,000 NATO trained and armed troops,
and as Putin said: "for what".

When the US sent 300 million dollars of weapons to Ukraine, those
were put into use on Feb 19th 2022 against the Russian speaking city of
Donetsk.

The Russian Federation had by then match the NATO threat it by gathering
160,000 to 170,000 troops next to Ukraine to say 'we mean it'.

Putin was dismissed as 'bluffing'.

Putin's warning against shelling Donbass was ignored, finally on Feb 24th
2022 move forces in, and set up a defensive perimeter.

Ukraine then lost most of it's army attacking the defensive Surovikin Line.

 

It's like you agree to protect a refugee who then calls in
an artillery attack on your position and both of you get
killed, that is what has been going on.

 

(*Sigh!*) No, we don't have to "bow down to King Putin". And remember -- NONE of this would have happened if we in "the West" had honored the terms and conditions stipulated in the Minsk Agreements of 2014 and 2015. "The West" (and Zelensky) never even intended to honor the agreements, and former German Chancellor, Angela Merkel admitted as much!

Link: https://mronline.org/2023/02/11/zelensky-admits-he-never-intended-to-implement-minsk-agreements/

But, if you know of some magic trick that we can pull to see Russia defeated, Putin deposed, and Ukraine solidly in power over the entire northern Black Sea region, please tell us what that could be! The inescapable reality of the situation, no matter whether someone loves Putin or hates him, is that Russia has an insuperable logistics advantage in that particular part of the Eastern European world... and we in "the West" most assuredly do NOT....

 

How did America lose in Vietnam and Afghanistan?
How did Russia lose in Afghanistan?

 

If in 2008 Ukraine had been on the border of Russia, then NATO would have
realized moving weapons and training up and equipping a huge army in Ukraine
would be a major concern to Russia.

And as you pointed out there would be a huge logistics disadvantage to NATO,

so I'm pretty sure Ukraine was a lot further west at that time.

 

Well, Doc Holliday may have been Ringo's "Huckleberry" friend, but I am not sure it made him any better. Maybe a little.