Arizona Grand Jury Indicts Donald Trump Allies, 11 Fake Electors

Shows that trump wasn't really concerned about securing DC at all. He wanted chaos, he got chaos. Anyone that actually believes mango worried about the traitorous dipshits he invited to DC that day needs to see a shrink.

 

Your ,and Trump’s , “belief” that these fake electors were “alternates” is belied by the documents they signed. This reveals they were created as part of a scheme to overthrow a legitimate election result. Your, and Trumps, after-the-fact “belief” is a contrived excuse to avoid the consequences for criminal actions.

I am quite happy to let due process proceed and let a jury decide. It’s the American way .
Your , and Trump’s , “belief” is if no matter.

 

Well that is complete BS

It's not a defense of bank robbery if I say "But I really believed that the money in that bank was mine."

What "credibility" Trump assigned means nothing.

 

Actually it's called complete fact, try to deal with it this time. And yes if I believe I have a claim to money in a bank it is perfectly reasonable for me to go to the bank and present that claim. What credibility to it Trump gave it is the only salient point you don't get to assign one to him.

 

No they aren't the formal language is dictated by law, they remained for contingency purpose as I have cite.

Learn the difference between overturn and overthrow.

Time for you to produce something to back up this plan to sneak them in a fake everyone out.

 

He was one of louder voices urging the Capitol and DC to request the additional you didn't know that. The chaos STYMIED his plan, it prevent the challenges he was still banking on, you didn't know that?

Quote him inviting anyone to come to DC and engage in violent without projecting your own conjecture on him.

 

I already posted two links that explain that. Either you didn't read them or you are being intentionally obtuse. There is another possibility, but I'll keep that one to myself.

 

So anytime someone challenges the results of an election they are engaging in a criminal act?

 

I have already posted a half dozen or more showing the precedents and the laws involved and the statements of those involved and you remain obtuse.

Nothing in the timeline or Johnson's handing a list to Pence refutes a thing I posted nor the actual facts here. The ONLY way those electors votes would have been counted would have been a challenge being LEGALLY accepted. There was no plan to ILLEGALLY fake everyone out. The votes had to be recorded on the date proscribed by law and they were done so as alternates, contingency.

 

What credibility Trump gave to the idea that he actually won the elections in those states does not offer a defense of committing an illegal act to obtain those electoral votes.

Filling out a false Electoral Vote Certificate stating that you are the "duly qualified and elected" electors of that state when, in fact, you are not IS AN ILLEGAL ACT. It doesn't matter how much you think you have the right to do it.

 

They didn't challenge the results. They filled out a forgery of an electoral certificate stating that they were the electors when, in fact, they were not. That is not a challenge. That is an illegal act. A challenge is done in court. These were not.

 

Highlighted in red: That statement is in error. First, there would be no legal challenge accepted, as all court actions had to be over by the "safe harbor" date, which was long passed. Additionally, only state sanctioned electors would count, using a legal document called a "certificate of ascertainment", which the fake electors did not have. Theirs was fake, or not sanctioned by the state. 5 of the 7 states were stupid enough to put the state seal on theirs, making it a forgery against state laws.
If you think I'm typing this for your education, you would be wrong. I already know you aren't going to pay attention to any of the data and just repeat the same questions you've already demanded others to answer for you. I type this in case someone is truly interested in getting to the bottom of things. But you are sure welcome to read the documents and data pertaining to these events, and you have every right to your opinion. Just remember that everyone else has the right to theirs as well.

 

Trump's plan, through Eastman, is the opposite of what you claim. Your entire defense is to pretend that Trump wasn't trying to do what he was actually trying to do.

 

They weren’t trying to “challenge” the results. They were trying to reverse the results. Ignore them. Keep Trump in the WH even though he lost the election.
They were attacking the Constitution and America.

 

The formal language is required BY ACTUAL ELECTORAL CERTIFICATES
Even if we accept your BS excuse the certificates signed were not actual certificates, they were "alternate certificates", means there had to be a way to identify the "alternate" certificates and the real ones. The "electors" in New Mexico and Pennsylvania seem to have been able to do that. And guess what, they aren't being prosecuted.

 

I don't have to produce anything. The fake electors provided the signed evidence that will convict them.

Let the trial(s) commence. Let a jury decide.

 

Yes and had any of the challenges succeeded and the previous certifications withdrawn these WOULD HAVE become the actual and why they had to be recorded FOR THE RECORD.

 

Yes when a candidate challenges the results they are trying to REVERSE them. So anytime one does it is a criminal act now? They were trying to keep him in office because they, rightly or wrongly, BELIEVED HE HAD WON and could challenge and win LEGALLY.

No more than Al Gore in 2000 or Jamie Raskin in 2016.

 

There were SEVERAL plans and had any of them worked then the alternates votes could come into play and therefore it was imperative they be record on the date required by law. You entire allegations hinges on people being fooled into thinking the "fakes" were real and somehow no one would notice. They could ONLY come into play had any of the plans by some miracle succeeded. None did no harm no foul.

 

All of the "plans" violated the Constitution and the ECA. And you blatantly mischaracterize how the "alternate" (in actually illegal and fake) electors would come into play. For once in your life, try reading the Eastman memo.

 

AS I SAID if my some MIRACLE a challenge including IN THE CONGRESS. And we don't know how that would have progressed once the courts got further involved. Theirs was a ALTERNATE only to be used in the event one of those challenges succeed else explain how they were going to replace the certified results in the hands of the NA which the Congress would then count. You can ignore that fact as much as you want it doesn't change it. As I showed you with the links and the other states them casting those votes was NOT illegal. Your only ground to stand on is two states didn't EXPLICITLY put the "contingency" on the forms submitted merely because they believed it would be assumed since there was not official seal or sig on them.

WOW through them all in jail!!!

 

Again, try reading the Eastman memo. That wasn't the plan.

 

I'm not sure how you read into things, but let's just agree that we see things differently. You don't understand or want to know the details, as many of your posts demonstrate a level of ignorance as to what actually happened and was done. It's been posted numerous times, both with links and copy/pasted excerpts, but you found an opinion article that tells you what you want to hear, so everyone else must be wrong.
Ok, I'm wrong, you're right.....................as always and forever.................
In fact, I think I'll vote for Trump now...................

 

I am the only one citing the law here and past precedent which you continue to ignore and refuse to answer the salient question had those alternate contingency votes not been recorded and at a later date a court challenge succeeded what would have happened to that states votes?


The Left’s 2020 ‘Fake Electors’ Narrative Is Fake News

The 2020 Georgia situation mirrors events of 60 years ago in Hawaii, revealing that everything the media have said about ‘fake electors’ is wrong.

....The 11-page, single-spaced letter then proceeded to detail both the Hawaii precedent for Shafer’s actions following the 2020 election and the legal advice the Republican elector received that “he and the other contingent presidential electors should meet at the state capitol building on December 14, 2020, and perform the duties of a presidential elector to preserve potential remedies in the event Trump et al. v. Raffensperger, et al. was successful.”

In addition to detailing the Hawaii precedent from 1960, Shafer’s lawyers highlighted the fact that in contesting the 2000 election, lawyers for then-Democrat presidential candidate Al Gore cited that very precedent to support his position that two elector slates could be appointed. In fact, Democrat Rep. Patsy Mink of Hawaii suggested the 2000 Florida electoral dispute be resolved based on that Hawaii precedent too. And three Supreme Court justices in Bush v. Gore cited the Hawaii precedent as a basis for allowing the Florida recount to proceed.

As the letter and Hawaii precedent make clear, Shafer and the other Trump electors not only did nothing wrong, but they acted prudentially to ensure that if the state court lawsuit resolved in the president’s favor, Georgia’s electoral votes would be properly counted on Jan. 6, 2020.

Here we see one of the only differences between Trump’s legal challenge and Kennedy’s: The Hawaii state court promptly resolved the merits of Kennedy’s legal challenge, while in violation of the Georgia Election Code that requires lawsuits contesting elections to be heard within 20 days, the Fulton County court delayed assigning a judge to hear Trump’s election dispute and then delayed the first scheduled hearing until Jan. 8, 2021 — two days after Congress certified Biden the winner of the 2020 election.

Now you know the rest of the story. There were no fake electors. The question now is whether Willis will charge Shafer and others with fake crimes.
https://thefederalist.com/2023/05/15/the-lefts-2020-fake-electors-narrative-is-fake-news/

 

Try actually reading the Eastman memo. Yes, these were fake electors. The people telling you this has anything to do with Gore or Hawaii in 1960 are pathetic, lazy, braindead liars.