The Battle over the Euro-Bond: Juncker Calls German Thinking 'Simple' If you maybe wonder, "Why is the Belgian guy up-in-arms?". Simple. This is really important stuff. They have been talking about Euro Bonds for over more than a decade now. This is really important. It's why, for example, countries like Ireland and Greece were so easily attacked on financial markets -- when other countries (e.g. the USA) didn't had to worry about a cloud in the skies. In this regard it's about "the bigger the better" -- which is almost never true, but in this case it is. SHAME! SHAME! Shame on Germany! Opinions?
Note to all: I wonder if that I make such horrible treads? Since almost not a single soul responds on them. I tought that when I moved them into the "Western Europe" section I would get more responses since a lot of the threads I make are about "Europe". In the past I posted them in the "Political Opinions and Believes" subsection -- that is (was?) "my" (favourite) subsection on the forum here. However, the amount of American weirdos overthere is staggering -- in essence those types don't come in the, what they call, "Y'rop" subforum.
It seems that you have much more of an interest in the EU than anyone else on this board. Being as this is a majority American board you are not going to get them commenting on the politics of the EU as most of them if not all of them do not know anything about it. Personally I think it is a boring subject and do not comment much on them either.
Sadly alot of people of your generation -- about 40'ish I presume? -- feel as you just mentioned above. However, I'm used to this very "viabrant" attitude about the European Union amongst us -- young students -- from attending University for 4 years. I now study something different -- I don't really regret it to persue something different -- but I badly miss my European politics... I try to make that up through the forum! (Besides, the EU is far from boring! British folks just have become used to the fact that their Parliament looks more like a performance of Cirque du Soleil -- compared to that, almost every other political entity is rather boring! )
Also, the original article provided in the first post is all from boring, I think. It even could be seen as the "War of the Worlds" -- in a financial sense. The US wants to put us -- yes, also the Brits -- on dry seed. This, of course, is unacceptable.
I think you will find that when you grow up and have lived thru many decades of the never ending bull(*)(*)(*)(*) of politics then you will not adore it like you do now. When you see that politics does not really change anything and that all it does is tax you and tax you some more and cut services then you will be just as apathetic as the rest of us are. This is the reason people do not vote, they have seen the promises broken year after year..the EU is just a cash cow for the few..
Interesting story about the euro bonds, but I wouldn`t say it`s a shame on Germany that their goverment proceeds is such matter. Afterall, the people and thus the politicians feel they have done the outmost already to keep the EU boat afloat. There is a lot of sentiment against the bail-out packages for the memberstates in trouble, why should the german taxpayer suffer for the unsound policies of Greece and Ireland? , so the Merkel administration is backtracking a bit. Its a question of taking the lead in the EU and I don`t think Germany quite wants that yet. Maybe they even push for some countries to leave (voluntary or by force) the euro zone, opting for a monetary union only with neighboring countries...anyway, we`ll see what next year will bring, especially how the situation in Spain and Italy develops, they are much more important markeds for German products then the little league countries that are now in trouble.
I agree with Janpor, Germany keep talking about more Europe, but this has to mean Eurobonds or the ECB being the lender of last resort (two thing Germany refuses to allow). Merkel seems to think endless summits with pointless agreements of lending targets that are no more under their control that the financial markets. These stabilit and growth pacts are nothing more than complete political theatre. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5abc14ba-a42e-11e1-a701-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1vgcCDRid
Would you with your money support a dumb neighbor who throws your banknotes out of the window and call you thereafter as idiot.
This is not the point. The point is to help your neighbour. Spain is borrowing on 6%, Germany just borrowed at 0,0%. => Helllo? Sure, I agree with Conservatives that just introducing Eurobonds is a terrible idea -- because it would remove any incentive for bad-preforming countries to structurually reform. In short -- there needs to be a deal that works for everybody. I think you've missed the message of Hollande's election: the re-introducement of France on the European stage, they run the show.
If you go to any bank you would see: 1. An official with a good job can borrow for 2%. 2. A politician for 0,0 %. 3. A blue collar worker for 4%. 4. Those who lost their jobs for 10 % or higher. I completely agree with you,that's unfair, but banks and their owners rule the world economy. As well-known owner of banks are have an affiliation to liberals. Only Conservative Christian Right-Wings can stop it.
To the OP : it is not a shame of Germany or any other, EU is built over neoliberal ideas which pretty much means the dictatorship of the banks. We all know for who European bourgeoisie works for and we all know that one way or the other we are (*)(*)(*)(*)ed ; making banking products to solve issues banking products created by the exact same people isn't going to make our life any better.
Well I don't think that was the original idea as the neoliberals had not got started when certainly the EEC began. However I would agree that that is the situation now. It is just my hope that people start understanding this and put both limitations on banking and safeguards on Democracy. Interestingly France and Germany do seem to have an interest in introducing at least a Robin Hood tax but it is something which at least the whole EU would need to agree to and that would include the UK which is sustained by fly by night bankers. Really we need world wide agreement but as those are the people who are ruling us and deciding who wins and who loses, those gaining from this system, like the UK, don't seem to want to risk. That is how that it is seen by me anyway. I found a paper the other day saying Greece is still paying a debt back to the US since I think 1888 and that with all the interest it has paid back already 3-4 hundred billion. Personally I think that one way we could look at the current EU is as the potential end to this system. It needs to be totally transformed so that it can work for the collective good rather than obscene wealth for a tiny minority.
The french president wants to go on a mediterranean spending binge but he wants to do it with north european lending costs. Sorry. It doesnt work that way. Theres no way in hell im paying more taxes so that this jackass can pretend that keynesian/class warfare policies are working. If he wants his stimulus, he'd better get the money for it by himself.
If you are referring to the 'Robin Hood' tax I mentioned above it was Sarkosy who expressed an interest. It has nothing to do with your little rant. [video=youtube;qYtNwmXKIvM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYtNwmXKIvM[/video] The irony is that your taxes will be used to pay off the rash gambles of banks for decades.
The Eurobonds are the most dangerous intention the Europeans ever had. S&P would rate europes creditworthiness bb- If the goal is to destroy Europe, Eurobonds seem to be the most adequate measure.
Hey janpor. I just repped you for this. But elsewhere you deny this is important any more. Just a minor argument. And you have gone missing from the debate. You're not by any chance adapting your position depending on which debate your in, are you? I suppose we all do that a bit. But you should come clean!
You are right , you consistently make poor choice Copy and Paste threads . Fancy quoting the Luxembourg PM displaying his feigned stupidity . The Germans have a very valid and practical position . Merkel needs to first soften and win her electors before the mad Bond scheme is adopted ( which will be , as you will see ) . Secondly, she also needs to await results of the Greek election next Sunday because different scenarios are dictated by the two possible election results --- broadly accepting EU bail out measures , or exiting the Euro .God help everybody if there is a voting stale mate . Lastly , there is opinion that a further source of imaginary funny money ( Bonds) is fiscally irresponsible . Unfortunately this issue is so large and deep that nobody in the EU ---and possibly the planet ---has a definitive answer . Anybody assuming otherwise is clearly no student of such matters Least of all the OP , whose absurd shouting at assumed long term German policy shows he has little inkling of political sub texts.
