Why can't we discuss UFO's honestly?

possum thinks dat was Santa Claus an' his twelve reindeer...

Dozens Of UFOs Spotted Christmas Eve
December 25, 2010 - Update: According to sources, the ‘orange lights’ were Chinese Lanterns.

 

I heard Santa was being tracked by NORAD.

 

My take on it is that the reason UFO's are not discussed seriously is because of the people who do discuss it. Basically, I think that when tinfoilers latch on to a subject, it becomes disreputable regardless of any evidence.

I've seen a similar thing to a lesser degree in the online anime fansub community. There's a fair amount of disdain for the divx and xvid video formats not so much because matroskas are inherently vastly superior, but because divx and xvid tend to be favored by relative noobies and those whose tastes run to more lowest common denominator type shows.

When it comes to UFO's - I would remind everyone that it stands for unidentified flying object. If you can say that it's an alien spaceship then you've identified it, and therefore it is not a UFO. Thanks to the tinfoilers all sorts of unrelated stuff has gotten swept up into the subject, and a lot of extremely silly stuff too. Cattle mutilations and crop circles have nothing to do with people seeing odd things in the sky. And credible people have been seeing some very odd things indeed.

For those inclined to dismiss the entire subject because of the tinfoilers, I'd just ask you to consider a couple questions. Do you really think we understand everything there is to understand about what goes on on the Earth? Do you really think it's impossible for weird and unexplained things to legitimately happen? And if you couldn't answer an unambiguous "yes" to both of those, then isn't it worthwhile investigating when a large number of credible people see something very unusual?

The vast majority of UFO sightings can be fairly easily explained as conventional things or shown to be hoaxes. Of those that are left, clearly a fair number are secret military craft or something similar. But even once you take all of those away, there's still a small portion of sightings that can pretty definitively be said to be truly unidentified. My opinion is that these are probably several different things, including natural processes that are currently poorly understood, or completely unknown. And then there are ones that appear to be structured craft under intelligent control. Just because they appear that way doesn't necessarily mean they are. The universe is a big and unpredictable place, after all. But whatever they are, I have a hard time seeing how they're not worth investigating.

 

I can happily discuss UFOs honestly because I've encountered a lot of UFOs. The last turned out to be a plate thrown at me by my wife, now my ex-wife, but it was a UFO when it went past. The same goes for the bottle that flew past my face and broke my nose, for the second time. I had no idea what it was until my partner told me.

One which I didn't see personally flew over our town and resulted in hundreds of phone calls to the police department. The callers reported it went from a virtual standstill to speeds above the speed of sound instantly. Other described it changing direction by 90% with reducing a high rate of speed. It turned out to be a large paper hot air balloon with a railroad flare hung beneath the balloon for the hot air. It was launched from a dam on the west edge of town and drifted with the wind over the city.

See, I'm discussing UFOs honestly. Oh, I walked into a dilapidated church at Acoma Pueblo and as I entered a dark hallway something went passed my head. What was that? Oh, an owl. Another UFO.

The problem comes in when people see little green proctologists from Venus. No, they can't be discussed honestly.

 

When I see one without doubt I'll believe, until then it's reserved for the kooks, conspiracy theorist, nuts and democrap congressmen from Ohio that belongs on Springer. They POSSIBLY exist but I ain't seen nothing yet.

 

Those that believe in UFO's that are more inclined to also believe in conspiracies involving UFO's (Roswell, alien bodies, etc.) are usually the most passionate and vocal and ruin it for everybody else, people that wish to take a more nuanced and analytical approach to it. The conspiracies surrounding the phenomenon require one to jump to a lot of conclusions based on dubious evidence.

 

Everybody needs a hobby. Some people read books, some people collect trains and some people choose to worry about UFOs. It's becoming quite stylish to be a member of a UFO conspiratorial group.

​

 

I have the distinct feeling that nobody actually read the OP.

 

Magnolia UFO Sightings Database
Nov. 02, 1885 Scutari (Turkey). A luminous object circled the har- bor. Altitude: 5-6 m. Illuminated the whole town. Duration: 1 1/2 min, as a bluish-green flame. Then plunged into the sea. Made several circles above the ferry-boat pier. (LDLN 48; Anatomy 14)

Nov. 12, 1887 Cape Race (Atlantic Ocean). A huge sphere of fire was observed rising out of the ocean by witnesses aboard the "Siberian." It rose to an altitude of 16 m, flew against the wind, and came close to the ship, then "dashed oft" toward the southeast. Duration: 5 min. (LDLN 48; Anatomy 14)

Mar. 28, 1897 Omaha (Nebraska). The majority of the population observed an object arriving from the southeast. It looked like a huge light, flew northwestward slowly, came to low altitude. A crowd gathered at a street corner to watch it.

Apr. 01, 1897 Everest (Kansas). The whole town saw an object fly under the cloud ceiling. It came down slowly, then flew away very fast to the southeast. When directly over the town it swept the ground with its powerful light. It was seen to rise up at fantastic speed until barely discernible, then to come down again and sweep low over the witnesses. At one point it re- mained stationary for 5 min at the edge of a low cloud, which it illuminated. All could clearly see the silhouette of the craft. (FSR 66, 4)

Apr. 12, 1897 Nilwood (Illinois). On the property of Z. Thacker, 19 km north of Carlinville, an unknown object landed. Before the three witnesses could reach it, the craft, which was shaped like a cigar with a dome, rose slowly and left majestically toward the north. Witnesses: Edward Teeples, William Street and Franklin Met- calf. (186; Anatomy 12)

Apr. 12, 1897 Girard, near Green Ridge (Illinois). A large crowd of miners saw an unknown object land 3 km north of Green Ridge and 4 km south of Girard. The night operator of the Chicago-and-Alton Railroad, Paul Mc- Cramer, stated that he came sufficiently close to the craft to see a man emerge from it to repair the ma- chinery. Traces were found over a large area. The object itself was elongated like a ship with a roof and a double canopy. It left toward the north. (186,187)

Apr. 14, 1897 Gas City (Indiana). An object landed 2 km south of Gas City on the property of John Roush, terrifying the farmers and causing the horses and cattle to stampede. Six occupants of the ship came out and seemed to make some repairs. Before the crowd could approach the object, it rose rapidly and flew toward the east. (18

Apr. 15, 1897 Linn Grove (Iowa). A large object was seen to fly slowly toward the north. It seemed ready to land and five men (F. G. Ellis, James Evans, David Evans, Joe Croaskey, Benjamin Buland) drove toward it. About 7 km north of Linn Grove, they found the craft on the ground, came within 700 m of it but it "spread its four giant wings and rose towards the North." Two strange figures aboard the craft made efforts to con- ceal themselves. Witnesses were surprised at the length of their hair. Most residents of Linn Grove saw the craft in flight. (190)

Apr. 15, 1897 Howard-Artesian (South Dakota). A flying object coming closer and closer to the ground followed a train, as reported by the engineer, Joe Wright (FSR 66,4)

Apr. 15, 1897 Perry Springs (Missouri). A passenger train on the Wabash line, going toward Quincy, was followed by a low-flying object for 15 min between Perry Springs and Hersman. All the passengers saw the craft, which had a red and white light. After Hersman it flew ahead of the train and disappeared rapidly, although the train was then running at 65 km/h. (190)

Apr. 16, 1897 Downs Township (Illinois). Approximate date. While working in his field, Haney Savidge saw an aerial craft land near him. Six people emerged from it and spoke to him for a few minutes before leaving again. (191)

Apr. 17, 1897 Williamston (Michigan). At least a dozen farmers saw an object maneuver in the sky for an hour before it landed. A strange man near 3 m tall, almost naked and suffering from the heat, was the pilot of the craft. "His talk, while musical, seemed to be a repeti- tion of bellowings." One farmer went near him and received a blow that broke his hip. (196)

Apr. 19, 1897 Leroy (Kansas). Alexander Hamilton was awakened by a noise among the cattle and went out with his son and his tenant. They saw an elongated cigar- shaped object, about 100 m long with a transparent cabin underneath showing narrow reddish bands, hovering 10 m above ground. They approached within 50 m of it. It was illuminated and equipped with a searchlight. Inside it were "six of the strangest be- ings" the witness had seen, also described as "hid- eous." They spoke a language no witness could understand. A cow was dragged away by the object with the help of a strong red cable; it was found butchered in a field the next day. (Anatomy 16; Ma- gonia)

Apr. 22, 1897 Rockland (Texas). John M. Barclay was intrigued when his dog barked furiously and a high-pitched noise was heard. He went out, saw a flying object circling 5 m above ground. Elongated with protru- sions and blinding lights, it went dark when it landed. Barclay was met by a man who told him his purpose was peaceful and requested some common hardware items to repair the craft. He paid with a ten-dollar bill and took off "like a bullet out of a gun." (192; Magonia)

Apr. 22, 1897 Josserand (Texas). Frank Nichols, who lived 3 km 2400 east of Josserand and was one of its most respected citizens, was awakened by a machine noise. Looking outside, he saw a heavy, lighted object land in his wheat field. He walked toward it, was stopped by two men who asked permission to draw water from his well. He then had a discussion with a half-dozen men, the crew of the strange machine. He was told how it worked but could not follow the explanation. (193; Magonia)

Apr. 23, 1897 McKinney Bayou (Arkansas). Judge Lawrence A. Byrne of Texarkana, Arkansas, was surveying a tract of land when he saw a peculiar object anchored on the ground. "It was manned by three men who spoke a foreign language, but judging from their looks one would take them to be Japs." (Farish, in Allende Letters (Award Special, 196 )

Apr. 25, 1897 Merkel (Texas). People returning from church ob- served a heavy object being dragged along the ground by a rope attached to a flying craft. The rope got caught in a railroad track. The craft was too high for its structure to be visible but protrusions and a light could be distinguished. After about 10 min a man came down along the rope cut the end free, and went back aboard the craft, which flew away toward the northeast. The man was small and dressed in a light- blue uniform. (194; Magonia)

Apr. 26, 1897 Aquila-Hillsboro (Texas). Approximate date. A law- yer was surprised to see a lighted object fly over. His horse was sacred and nearly toppled the carriage. When the main light was turned off, a number of smaller lights became visible on the underside of the dark object, which supported an elongated canopy. It went down toward a hill to the south, 5 km from Aquila. When the witness was on his way back one hour later he saw the object rising. It reached the altitude of the cloud ceiling and flew to the northeast at a fantastic speed with periodic flashes of light.

Taken from http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

 

The following is a report taken from the North American Review, 3:320-322, 1816 - a report which the author E. Acharius was also taking to the Royal Academy. The event took place over the village Biskophsberga.


On the 16th of last May (1816), being a very warm day, and during a gale of wind from south-west, a cloudless sky, at about 4 O'clock, p.m., the sun became dim, and lost his brightness to that degree, that he could be looked at without inconvenience to the naked eye, (the sun) being of a dark red, or almost bright color, without brilliancy.
At the same time there appeared at the western horizon, from where the wind blew, to arise gradually, and in quick succession, a great number of balls, or spherical bodies, to the naked eye of the size of the crown of a hat, and of a dark brown color.

The nearer these bodies, which occupied a considerable though irregular breadth of the visible heaven, approached towards the sun, the darker they appeared, and in the vicinity of the sun, became entirely black.

At this elevation their course (speed) seemed to lessen, and a great many of them remained, as it were, stationary; but they soon resumed their former, and accelerated motion, and passed in the same direction with great velocity and almost horizontally.

During this course some disappeared, others fell down, but the most part of them continued their progress almost in a straight line, till they were lost sight of at the eastern horizon.

The phenomenon lasted uninterruptedly, upwards of two hours, during which time millions of similar bodies continually rose in the west, one after another irregularly, and continued their career exactly in the same manner (mentioned above).

No report, noise, nor any whistling or buzzing in the air was perceived. As these bodies slackened their course on passing by the sun, several were linked together, three, six, or eight of them in a line, joined like chain-shot by a thin and straight bar; but on continuing again amore rapid course (speed), they separated, and each having a tail after it, apparently of three or four fathoms length, wider at its base where it adhered to the ball, and gradually decreasing, till it terminated in a fine point (tapered tails).

During the course, these tails which had the same black color as the balls, disappeared by degrees.

The author goes on to state that some of the balls came to Earth near one observer. As it neared the ground it lost its black color and became hard to see until they reached the ground and again became more visible, but this time as a ball of changing colors.

The people compared them to soap bubbles. These then disappeared leaving a thin film: "....a scarcely perceptible film or pellicle, as thin as a cobwed, which (itself) was still changing colors, but soon dried up and vanished.

Since this event took hours it was witnessed by all the people of the village.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

 

This painting is called "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino". It was painted in the 15th century by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494) and hangs as part of the Loeser collection in the Palazzo Vecchio. Above Mary's right shoulder is a disk shaped object. Below is a blow up of this section and a man and his dog can clearly be seen looking up at the object.







A disk shaped object is shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus - Fitzwilliam Musuem, Cambridge, England - Painted in 1710 by Flemish artist Aert De Gelder. It depicts a classic, hovering, silvery, saucer shaped UFO shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus. What could have inspired the artist to combine these two subjects?

 

A wood cut found in Nurnberg Germany in 1561 depicts alarge dark missile with a many others like it in the sky. Also depicted are globes, cylindrical space ships, and the sun.

 

A UFO Visits Ohio In 1858

Posted in The Ilustrated Silent Friend


Three years after the publication of Walt Whitmans Leaves of Grass, a mysterious miniature book appeared in the bookstalls of New York City. Just large enough to fit in the palm, and easily hidden in a gentleman's pocket or a ladys knitting bag, The Illustrated Silent Friend, by William Earl, M.D., of 12 White Street, offered an extraordinary variety of arcane information.
As the title page of the paperback copy I own informs the public, the Silent Friend is A Complete Guide To Health, Marriage and Happiness, Embracing Subjects Never Before Scientifically Discussed - With Magnificent Illustrations In Anatomy Of The Lungs, Fistal Delivery, Monstrosities, Uterine Tumors, Generative Organs, Deformities, Diseases, & C. Also, Valuable and Practical Receipts In Medicine, The Arts, Etc. And in 382 pages printed in minute type, Dr. Earl delivers a breathtaking range of quaint and curious lure. Sandwiched in between advertisements for male safes [condoms] made of white Indian rubber, and herbal cures for gonorrhea, were recipes for making wood more durable than iron and practical advice for would-part-time mesmerists.

Of course, many books of the time dealt in similar subjects, but not quite with Dr. Earls panache: "To transfer a pale and sallow face to one of beauty," he tells us, "take one dozen common iron nails, about 2 inches long, one tablespoon of extract of aloes hepatica, put these into a large bottle and poor upon them two quarts of eider, cork them up tightly and shake them every day for one month, then strain off the clear liquid, and of this take one table spoon upon rising and going to bed, when all paleness will leave the face, and it will ultimately attain beauty."

Whether this beauty is attained in life, or ultimately achieved upon the death by poisoning of the patient, Dr. Earl fails to say. Among all the snake-oil clap-trap contained in this entertaining bit of Americana is one entry that, in its strangeness, and its use of specific names and places, stands out from the rest. On pages 253-256, we find this startling entry:

"Do the Inhabitants of other Planets ever Visit this Earth? I propose in this connection to make a few remarks on the following: Mr. Henry Wallace and other persons of Jay, Ohio, have recently detailed to me the annexed. There are thousands of such cases on record. These gentlemen state, that sometimes since on a clear and bright day, a shadow was thrown over the place where they were; this necessarily attracted their attention to the Heavens, where they one and all beheld a large and curiously constructed vessel, not over one hundred yards from the earth. They could plainly discern a large number of people on board of her, whose average height appeared to be about twelve feet. The vessel was evidently worked by wheels and other mechanical appendages, all of which worked with a precision and a degree of beauty never yet attained by any mechanical skill upon this planet.

Now, I know that thousands will, at this recital, cry humbug, nonsense, lunacy, &c., but I know that there are other thousands who will read and reflect. It is for these latter thousands that I write. Once upon a time there appeared a celebrated reformer, who arose among the people and taught a new doctrine, that from its reasonableness and its simplicity, electrified the hearts of the thinking people. But the party who didnt think, and who hated reason, and new ideas, cried out, away with him to the crucifixion. And they did crucify his body, but they have not yet succeeded in crucifying the reason, and new facts and ideas that be taught.

In view, then, of the above, I venture to advance the following remarks: I believe that the time will come when all of the inhabitants of all worlds or planets in the solar system, will regularly visit each other when in the fullness or fruition of things, an interchange of ideas and commodities, visiting and greetings between the respective inhabitants of all worlds or planets, will be common and universal. I believe that the grand aspirations of an advanced humanity on this earth, is not without a good cause and a good reason.

I believe that when the respective atmospheres seen surrounding the different planets in the solar system, indeed, of every part of the universe, shall have passed into the highest condition of excellence and purity of which it is capable, that it will then give life to a more exalted and finished condition of genera and species, or inhabitants. That all of the planets are now inhabited by a kind of beings suited to their respective planetary and electrical conditions, is, I think, certain. And that the inhabitants of thousands of these worlds, that roll with eternal beauty throughout the boundless regions of the immensity of space, have attained that advanced condition in their planetary being, I have no doubt, whatever.

And that this ship which Mr. Wallace and others saw, was a vessel from Venus, Mercury, or the planet Mars, on a visit of pleasure or exploration, or some other cause; I myself, with the evidence at hand, that I can bring to bear on it, have no more doubt of, than I have of the fact of my own existence. This, mind, was no phantom that disappeared in a twinkling, as all phantoms do disappear, but this aerial ship was guided, propelled and steered through the atmosphere with the most scientific system and regularity, at about six miles an hour, though, doubtless, from the appearance of her machinery, she was capable of going thousands of miles an hour, and who knows but ten thousand miles an hour. What can be more wonderful as an illustration, than the Electric Telegraph to connect the old world with the new. And why then, may not the scientific geniuses of other planets have done as much as ours have?

Besides this, if I had room, I could draw an argument from the electrical condition of the media existing between the planets, to show that a body once in motion at a given distance from a planetary body in space, will move with nearly the speed of electricity till it meets again the resisting media, or atmosphere of another planet or body in space. That all of this knowledge, and a million times more, may be known to some of the exalted beings of other planets in space, I have no doubt. But as I was saying, this aerial ship moved directly off from the earth, and remained in sight, till by distance she was lost to the view. The foregoing is my firm and decided conclusion and belief in this matter."

Dr. Earl lived on to publish a new, enlarged Illustrated Silent Friend, as well as The Parent's Companion; On the diseases of infants and children; Woman; her duties, relations and position; A medical and social work; Seven Causes of Debility; and Moderate the pace that Kills; High pressure business life; all in 1878 and catalogued by the Library of Congress.

Of course, the crux of the matter is this: was there really a Henry Wallace of Jay, Ohio? The most logical place to search would be the old census records for Ohio, and this is exactly what I determined to do. Because of logistical difficulties (I live half a world away), I contacted the Ohio Historical Society via the internet, paid the requisite fee, included a self-addressed envelope with my written request, and received, by mail the following letter dated April 21, 1999:

Dear Mr. Glass:

Regarding your request for information from the 1850 Census, please see the attached materials. You will note that there are several "Henry Wallaces" listed in the Index to the Federal Census of Ohio; unfortunately, none of them are listed in a county that includes a town by the name of Jay. However, there is a town named Jay in Erie County, which is just east of Lorain County. So we copied the Lorain County listing for a Henry Wallace in the hopes that this was the man you are interested in.

The appended pages included copies from the 1860 census of Ohio. I scanned through the spidery and antique handwriting, and there he was! Henry Wallace of Eerie County, and presumably of Jay, was number 549 in the records. His age in 1860 was 30 years old. He was married to Cloe, 28, and had a daughter named Eva B who was 12 years and 8 months old at the time. Henry and his wife were Irish; his occupation was listed as "Sailor." What is more, the entry just previous to Henrys is for one David Wallace, 27 years old, and also from Ireland. He too had a wife and a young daughter to support. Davids occupation is listed as "Ship Carpenter."

Presumably, David and Henry were brothers and next-door neighbors in Jay. Further perusal of the page indicates that their neighborhood was composed primarily of sailors, millers, farmers and domesticsi.e., Henry and his family appear to have been members of the working poor of the time. Their position in society was no doubt a difficult one, as was that of many Irish immigrants. Add to this the probability that Henry Wallace was corresponding with Dr. Earl because of a sexually-transmitted disease picked up during his sea-faring life, and an interesting picture emerges: either the sailor was a consummate blarney artist practicing his gift upon a big city snake-oil salesman, or Wallace was a simple person telling the truth to one whom he--mistakenly--believed to be a man of science.

 

The "other persons," Dr. Earl mentions above, may well have been from this neighborhood of poor people in the small town of Jay, Ohio. No doubt Henry Wallace never suspected that Dr. Earl would mention him by name in his odd little book and thereby allow us to catch a glimpse of this poor man and those who might have witnessed one of the most extraordinary sights any human could behold. What thoughts could have run through their minds in the presence of an airship hovering so near to the earth that it clearly exhibited its crew of giants and the intricate machinery that made it fly? And then to watch it move grandly through the air until lost from sight!

 

That is why I like this thread here.... good comic relief

 

Look Zero I can not believe in in aliens until I see one.

But I think the reason that UFO's are easily dismissed by most skeptics is that they confuse them with space vessles from a galaxy far far away (shout out to those who use the force

UFO's are exactly that unidentified flying objects.

If I saw a SRr17 or a B52 flying above me at night with poor visibility it would register as a ufo.

When people start separating ufo's from alien space vessels then we can debate the subject properly.

Until then ignorance is bliss.

 

I have a distinct feeling that you did not read my reply.
ok found your response. so what is your point? that there are many reports about aliens and that they exist but don't show themselves, are in hiding.... ok fine. i do not know where the sky ends, can we discuss that? I don't know weather these are really stars or holes in the sky, but I have a feeling something can and must be done to fix dishonest governments that is why I spend time in a political forum, because I do not believe aliens are doing the job (weather they even try or not)

 

Granny believes - Do you?...

2010: A Big Year for UFOs
Dec 27, 2010 – Like a bad penny that keeps showing up, UFOs have been around on a regular basis from antiquity through modern day. And as 2010 unfolded, the UFO mythology was alive and well.

 

I witnessed a ufo once. I live near an airport and an airforce base so I see airplanes all the time. However, this object was so high I thought it was a star at first. It would stay stationary for long periods of time and blink. Then it would rapidly accelerate and then stop abruptly and stay there for awhile again. It would move forwards backwards and side to side occasionally. It would also make rapid zig zags. It was very odd. I watched it for over an hour. It was really neat to me. Is it an experimental aircraft? Possibly. I think the ufo phenomenon is very real. I think the majority of the ones that cannot be explained if not all of them are top secret test crafts though. However, as vast as the universe is, and if we accept evolution as fact, then it is mathematically impossible that life did not form somewhere else and that one of those planets has a civilization that has a big head start on us. However, no one could say whether they have found our planet or if they ever will even with advanced technology. The universe is huge. It is fun to entertain the idea though.

 

That's the Annunaki.. They are in and out of the stargate near Basra.. and will be showing up in force next march.

 

The Earth Seeders once they saw the dinosaurs go extinct and life become desolate decided to plant their species of life on earth.

They come and visit every now and then to check on their "children." During one of these visits they fell in love with beef.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5F-p...ayer_embedded#!

i suspect since they have not plainly harvest all our cows means it is a guilty pleasure for most of them.

those silly aliens

 

Dinosaurs didn't go extinct... Some of the largest species did, but most are still here.... by the billions.

 

Next time you see a bird flying around you're looking at the ancestor of a dinosaur.

 

I know.. isn't it grand?

 

fixed that for you.