The Confederacy: America's worst idea

Lincon might have made a good decision to keep the Union together, if you agree that people should be forced against their will to live in the USA. On the other hand, he murdered alot of yankess (war of attrition) under Gen. Grant to finally win the war in the Unions favor.

How would North America been like if there were three countries: Canada the Union and the Confederacy? May the Conferacy would have freed their slaves in the end of the 19th century like Brazil did? All those soldiers died for nothing.

 

" Jefferson improved on Locke,who emphasized that man entered political society to protect his property, by the statement: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

"Did Jefferson think of Negroes when he wrote, 'All men are created equal'? His subsequent career indicates that he did not; "

(Oxford History of American People, Samuel Eliot Morison, p.222)

Not only negroes, but indians as well.

Where do you get the quote from Jeff Davis?

Well, explain Gov. Thomas of Maryland.

Quantrill

 

I say this is the most silly and childish thing you have posted yet.

The policies of the President of the USA continues long after they leave office even if they die in office because the policy is different from the person.

Some future President or Congress can change older policies, and we do know that many tried to change Lincoln's policies during the Reconstruction.

You claiming that some Attorney for the Prosecution named John Clifford was the man who shaped the US reconstruction policy in not prosecuting the rebel leaders - then you are being a fool.

Cheers.

 

They lost because they were industialy unpreparred for a protracted war, while they had allies, they did not have the sea recources to capitalize on the support from Europe. They lost, in short, because of ecnomics.

 

Thats utterly rediculous.

 

It was the right decision because it ended the African slavery.

It would have been different if the South were not run by white racist barbarians.

The history declares that it was the Southern traitors who killed (murdered) American soldiers, because the rebels fought against their own American flag.

It would then have been four (4) Countries including Mexico - duh.

But it was never going to happen, because it was righteous destiny that the rebels got whooped down.

You must see that as generous or even very white of you - that you would keep innocent people as slaves for another 40 years (if your claimed vision were true) as if 40 more years is nothing to your color.

But history tells us that the USA had cruel "Jim Crow laws" and white racist crimes against African Americans long into the 20th Century. And we clearly have white racist today that preach that Southern rebel trash so there is no reason at all to believe that the slavery would have ended without the civil war and Abe Lincoln.

Plus the new rebel Constitution had written into its law that the "negro" was to be a slave forever if the South had won that war, so they had no intention of ever ending the slavery. And it is important to note that the African slavery was not just about economics because the white people gratified their lust onto the black people.

The Yankee soldiers died by making the world into a better place and by making the USA into a better Country.

The rebel traitor soldiers died for the most ignorant and inhuman cause ever done in all of human history.

 

It was racial science, not racism, that came later during reconstruction.

 

You also saw political will for equality dwindle as the years went by and southern whites used states rights laws to legislate white only "rule" for lack of a better term, to limit the political power of southern blacks who were more populous in many areas. Some were elected to congress and one was appointed to the senate. They were great Americans and were intelligent and balanced and new the value of freedom.

 

Oh please. Be patient. I can tell your on the learning curve. So we are taking this in steps.

John Clifford withdraws saying the government 'could have fought a sucessful war only to have it declared unlawful by a Virginian jury'. So, its not looking good for the yankee team. President Johnson has an idea. He will pardon Jeff Davis as he has pardoned other Confederates. Then, it will just go away.

But, the problem with that is, Jeff Davis refuses the pardon. He is not guilty and to accept a pardon would be admission to guilt. Instead, he says, he wants his day in court. Lets let the Court decide. My how that throws a wrench in the yankee works. What will they do now?

Ummm, yankee? What will they do now?

Cheers. To the Union, next to our liberties, most dear.

Quantrill

 

None of that makes any difference - even if your pretentious claims were true it still makes no difference of any kind.

The rebellion was crushed, the African slavery was ended, and the USA moved onward.

For the likes of Davis and Lee to cry over their loss and to carry their bitterness to their graves means as much of nothing as people like your self crying over the same thing 150 years later.

And if people like your kind want to rise-again then we will whoop you down again - and rightly so.

Cheers.

 

Racial science is not racist but many whites have twisted the science into their racist ideals.

Like the harmless "Origin of Species" by Darwin is still today mis-used to claim white superiority over the blacks.

I do not believe anyone denies that the whites were smart and competent - no, the problem was that the whites were racist and that racism undermined the progress.

Those same whites could have used their intelligence and skills to make a better world but instead their racism held us all backward.

Those whites did know of their own selfish kind of freedom, but it was based on denying the freedom to other people.

 

Oh, I disagree. It makes all the difference in the world. It makes you the yankee, the traitor. Traitor. It means you settled the question of secession by war and bayonet, but not because you were right. It means the South was right.

So, Clifford withdraws from the case. Jeff Davis refuses a pardon and wants his day in Court. A new prosecutor is found. It's none other than Richard Dana of Boston. He is also the well known author of 'Two Years Before The Mast'. He took the case, and reviewed and came to the same conclusion that Clifford did. It won't stand up in Court. He too withdraws.

Dana's advice is similar to Clilffords. 'The North should accept its uncivilized victory, however dirty its hands might be, and not expose the fruits of its carnage to scrutiny by a peaceful court of law.'

What will the yankees do now. 600,000 men are dead. Will the trial of Jeff Davis reveal that the yankee is the one responsible? How can the north not try Davis who they have labeled the personafication of evil and sedition and treason?

With the Grand jury indictment still over his head, bond is set for Davis at 100,000 dollars. None other than Horace Greely, leading abolishonist newpaper writer, helps get the money to allow Davis to go free. Why did Greely do that? Because of the injustice he saw in the whole legal proceedings surronding Jeff Davis. Because of the injustice he saw during the war, of newpapers shut down by Lincoln and their owners arrested with no explanation.

So Davis is free for the time. Awaiting his day in court. The day the yankee can prove secession was treason.

Cheers. To the Union, next to our liberties, most dear.

Quantrill

 

The South did not get the final say on who is right.

We won. We're the new truth.

 

The South started the war, then the Yankees responded to the violent rebellion.

The so-called secession meant nothing until the rebels opened fire on the US Fort Sumter, so firing on American troops was the only true crime, and that was the treason against the American flag.

Under the US law then a Politician can say or do lots of things that average citizens can not do or say. We view such as part of an open democracy.

The so-called "secession" was not recognized by the US gov and as such a secession never really happened.

The only real crime was shooting and killing federal troops which Davis did not participate within. The fact that foolish people followed his violent orders might not be considered as murder back at those times.

I myself say that it would have been right to hang both Davis and Lee, but it does not matter now 150 years later.

Cheers.

 

But what your saying is not what happened. The yankees wanted to try Davis for treason. The yankees wanted to display the righteous judgement of treason before the whole world.

They wanted to, but found that they were the ones that would be found out as traitors. Then instead, they start looking for ways out. How do we get out of this mess? Davis wouldn't accept their pardon. He wanted his day in court.

The judge of Davis case was also Suprem court chief justice. This would come in handy. In Dec.1868, the U.S. Government was ready to proceed with its case against Davis for treason against the U.S.

Chief Justice Salmon Chase suggested to Davis attoney, Charles O'Connel, that he should request a dismissal of the charges against Davis based on Sec.3 of the 14th ammendment. This stated a disqualification from office for anyone who had taken an oath to support the Constitution and then served the Confederacy in some manner. And if this prohibition was upheld by the court, of whom Chase was the judge, then it would disallow for any further prosecution on the basis of double jeopardy.

Davis attorney made the motion for dismissal. It was discussed in the court for a time. It was then referred to the Supreme Court for a decision. A supreme court of which Chase was the chief justice.

Dec. 25, 1868, President Johnson issued a general amnesty for most Confederates.

February 26, 1869, the Supreme Court dismissed the case against Davis.

No trial. Davis was denied his day in court to display before the world who the real traitors were.

'Glory glory, hallelujah' True to their yankee blood, the yankee hid the real reasons from public. They just wanted Davis to go away.

Under a trial by your peers, based on the Constitution, the North could not convict Davis or the South of treason.

Cheers. To the Union, next to our liberties, most dear.

Quantrill

 

If as you say the US Supreme Court dismissed the case then that is that. It surely was not some little Prosecution Attorney who did anything.

And I will give you the point that Davis and Lee were never convicted as traitors, but they still were racist rebels who fought against the Country they were born into.

So go ahead and cry about Davis missing his day in Court - because he missed out on his racist rebellion too.

Cheers my white brother.

 

No no, the point is that the yankees had the chance to prove to the world that the South and Jeff Davis were guilty of treason. Yet they could not. Instead, the courts would find Jeff Davis innocent of treason. The Southernor was innocent of treason. The yankee was the traitor. You are the traitor.

Glory, glory hallelujah. Glory, glory....

Cheers. To the Union, next to our liberties, most dear.

Quantrill

 

The Union had nothing to prove as they won the war.

In fact you are the only person that I ever heard of that claimed the Yankees were traitors because it is an absurd accusation.

Perhaps in your own small white clan you might say such things, so I suggest you come out into the real world and see the reality.

Amen.

 

They had Jeff Davis ready for trial. They were going to show the world the ugly head of treason and then hang him. Instead, they couldn't, because they couldn't win. It was they and you who were the traitors.

Jeff Davis was set free through manipulation of the justice system because they couldn't win the case and they didn't want to be seen as guilty of treason themselves.

See how your Lincoln had nothing to do with it. You were wrong there as you have been wrong about everything else. You have believed what you wanted to, what they told you. Because you are from them. Go ahead, continue to live in your dream world and believe your lies.

But now you know, your the real traitor. You and yours. And the South was right.

Glory, glory, hallelujah....glory,glory....

Cheers. To the Union, next to our liberties, most dear.

Quantrill

 

It started out as racial science, that is, that whites were superior to blacks for a whole host of reasons. It would seem that you are under the impression that the founding fathers did debate and seriously consider the abolition of slavery at the very beginning. You would be wrong if thats the case. The southern states wanted to keep slavery because they needed labor. The absence of forethought prevented them from seeing the benifits of free men, but as stated before, it was the prevelant social science of the time that also played a role in keeping blacks slaves. Racism was based on fear in the south, that the newly citizenized blacks after the fourteenth amendment would become as brutal as they had been during the slave years, that too fail to recive a fair chance of succeeding. Until Jim Crow laws were passed in each of the southern states blacks served in congess and one black man was appointed to the senate in Louisiana. Sure they were selfish, but they were also angry, and worse the were scared to death of the new majority.

 

You have it all wrong.

 

I really do agree with you in all of this, and I do not offer any contradiction, but I do declare that such realities do NOT justify any of it.

That the whites were fearful, racist, greed driven, and other aspects - those are to our white shame and white guilt.

Similar things were said about the white Apartheid rule in South Africa, and I remember how whites here in the USA felt the same way regarding our sympathies for those whites in South Africa who were afraid of what the white conquistadors had created and afraid to let go of it too.

The famous "Monkey Trap" link HERE and HERE.

The black people never wanted superiority, the blacks do not even want to win or to compete, as all the blacks ever seek after is equality.

They were never a threat to us, and they were never our enemies - while we whites remained enemies and hateful to them without justification.

 

I say it is morally repugnant to leave the question of slavery out of the equation, especially when there would NOT have been a desire to leave the Union except for the issue of slavery, and if it was not for slavery then the North might have been happy to let the South leave the Union because the North was prosperous and the Union was valuable to all there under.

And the Southern rebel Constitution was designed based on the US Constitution because the South still wanted the vast benefits of such a Union under a strong federal gov.

Plus we know that the South lived under the military protection of the US federal gov, as in the War of 1812, the War of Texas against Mexico, the Mexican American War 1846-48, and the Indians wars were fought with federal troops, so the entire USA including the southern States had lived and survived under the Union's federal protection.

Plus the Declaration of Independence was not equal to the Constitution, and many of the leading rebel States had the famous members who created the Union in the first place. Those who created the Union included the States of Georgia, South and North Carolina, and both James Madison and George Washington came from the State of Virginia as they signed the original Constitution. This means the rebel States were defying their own founding fathers who had created the Union.

And in fact the new rebel Constitution denied many of the rights and liberties which were given under the US Constitution, so the civil war was not about seeking freedom or liberation.

The Southern rebellion was lucky and fortunate and even blessed because Abe Lincoln and the Union Army defeated their ignorant intentions and saved the South from itself.

 

Of coarse its not justified, its just they way it was then. They saw the world in whole different way than we do now. Not the same at all. I experience zero guilt, why should I. Thats BS. I did none of those things. Some people are racist, and that includes black people too. Its human nature. As far as I am comncerned they are equal in every way. Its racist organization like the NAACP who are holding black people back, because they profit from it. That too, is the way it is.

 

Slavery has not existed for 150 years. Its gone. Get over it, and move on with your life. Treat people as you want to be treated and with justice and honor and you will be fine.