Thought I'd throw this out here since [MENTION=68107]Qchan[/MENTION] was asking me questions about my faith in another thread and I mentioned it in my introductory post. My religion is Ásatrú, the modern reconstruction of the indigenous religious beliefs of the pre-Christian Germanic and Nordic peoples. It is a polytheistic faith, worshiping the Aesir and Vanir, two tribes of gods who reconciled and allied after a great war; the word "Ásatrú" derives from "Asa" (Aesir) and "tru" (faith). We worship the gods, our ancestors, and the spirits of the sky and land. Our ethics focus on personal honor, personal worthiness, and building strong families and communities. It is a tribal faith and member organize themselves into tribal/family groups called kindreds or hearths. Ásatrú on Wikipedia I personally lean more toward the universalist side. I do not think the Aesir are "gods for everybody" or that all paths lead to the Aesir, but I think that a person who feels a personal connection or calling to the gods should be encouraged regardless of their heritage; I believe that our ancestral and divine traditions of forming kin-bonds by adoption should extend to those worthy people of non-Germanic descent. I also lean more toward the literalist side of things, believing in the gods as (among other things) literal physical beings of tremendous wisdom and might. I believe they share this wisdom and might with us through our blót rituals, just as our ancestors share their wisdom and might with us when we commune with them. I believe that the gods are ancestors of man, and that they have helped guide and advance our evolution since pre-history. I believe that growing in might and wisdom is the gods' plan for us, and this is how I reconcile my religious beliefs with my secular belief in transhumanism. I am a member of Wolf Tree Kindred in Laramie, Wyoming, and we are probationary members of the Ásatrú Alliance, a national organization of kindreds that focuses on building personal relationships between member kindreds and a stronger heathen community.
Sooooooo many questions. Okay, first, what do you believe regarding Ragnarok? I'd be more specific, but I feel that should be left open ended. On a related note, what about Loki? Some Asatru that I know regard him as a god with a valuable role to play, and that his "demonization" came from later Christian interpreters. Other Asatru that I've known regard him as a purely malignant force to be avoided. Lots more to come, I'm sure, but those are always the first ones I like asking.
I believe in Ragnarok on multiple levels. On a metaphorical level, it's a symbol of the cycle of civilization; civilizations are born, they grow, they wither, and they die. We see this in the Viking Age, which was the withering of the pre-existing Norse culture. There is a cycle of birth-life-death-rebirth to which all things are subject, and Ragnarok is a metaphor for that. On a literal level, this cycle applies to the Earth and to the physical universe as well. The world will end, the gods will die, and a new world and new gods will be born and new civilizations will be born in the place of ours. My kindred recognizes and-- very carefully-- honors Loki as the blood brother of Odin and a source of strife necessary for growth. This has led to conflicts with other kindreds who view him as an enemy of the gods.
So, I'd like to ask the same thing I ask of most other religious views, how do you get to these beliefs? Do you have a method of sorting believable beliefs from other beliefs in a way that singles our Asatru from other common, uncommon or even non-existent religion at the same time as being possible to verify with everyday situations and claims?
Good is healthy, wholesome-- good is what makes you, your family, and your community stronger. Evil doesn't exist. If someone does something that is bad for you, it is either good for them or they are sick; everyone has their reasons. Sometimes you can make a compromise with a greedy person or heal a sick person, and other times you have to destroy them, but they're never "evil". - - - Updated - - - Nope. I believe it because it feels right.
You know, the Russians used to believe this. One of many of their state torturers in Soviet prisons were quoted as saying, "There is no [...] punishment for evil. We can do what we wish." And they were also quoted as saying, "I thank God, in whom I don't believe, that I have lived to this hour when I can express all the evil in my heart." Source: http://victimsofcommunism.org/the-war-on-religion/ You're a polytheist, so I'm sure you can't relate to their claim on a god existing or not existing. However, in your belief, there is no evil. So, could it be true that these people really could express such feelings without needing to worry about the ramifications of their actions?
So you acknowledge that your method of deciding on your religion does not conform to reality? That is, you don't require or even desire for the things you believe to be true?
There were ramifications. Look at the country they lived in-- that was a consequence of their actions. Russia has a history of cycles of ruthless authoritarianism and equally ruthless reprisal. They harmed their community, they harmed their honor, they harmed their luck; these are the consequences of their wrongful actions. We do not need the gods to punish us for wrongful action; wrongful action often contains its own punishment, and if it does not, reprisal from our fellow man is sure to follow. - - - Updated - - - I have my experiences, which are evidence enough for me. I only acknowledge that they are not evidence enough for you.
How do you truly know what's wrong or right? What if you're doing wrong this whole time and you're suffering, but don't know what you're doing that could be considered wrong? What do you do then?
As I mentioned in my first post here, I'm interested in how this compares to other religions. People of all religions have experiences left and right, what makes you sure yours are genuine while others are not?
Reason, and if we are religious, our religious teachings. We examine the consequences of our actions and determine if they're producing the results we want, and if not, we correct our course. Everyone disagrees on right and wrong, which is why websites like this exist-- all we can do is our best. You seek wisdom. Consult your ancestors, consult the gods. Examine your life. And if you can't figure it out, you keep suffering. The gods will help us if you ask them, but you're expected to figure it out on your own. And nobody's perfect.
Good response. Now, you mentioned you've had personal experience that solidified your faith in the religion. I'm interested in knowing what those things were.
I use my judgment. My experiences make sense to me. Sometimes, other peoples' experiences-- whether in my faith or another-- make sense to me. Other times, they don't make sense and I dismiss them as silly. People dismiss my experiences all the time. There isn't one "right" religion and all others are wrong. I generally believe most religions are real, and if followed properly, will lead to health and luck. I just believe my religion is best, and I encourage people to look into it-- and if it speaks to their soul, to follow it. I don't concern myself much with other religions, except where we can work together for the betterment of our community; other people are responsible for their own luck, and all I can really do for them (if they don't want my help) is to wish them the best. Ásatrú isn't a soteriological religion. Your soul isn't saved by worshiping our gods, only helped. You have to do the majority of the work yourself. There's no religious obligation to proselytize, and no universal obligation to worship; I only preach because I want my religion to grow and because I honestly believe it can help people.
This is actually part of what draws me to Asatru: the Stoicism of it all. You know that a certain outcome is unavoidable, but rather than fanatical rebellion against fate or quiet acceptance, Asatru tend to prioritize a sense of dignity, heroism and an almost paradoxical courageous humility. That's why I tend to like them. Also most of them brew, which is a nice bonus. Personally, I think it is healthy to find a place for the trickster aspect in any culture. So, another question. Most of the Asatru that I know regard the Aesir as their literal ancestors. Does you tradition feel the same? Also, how do you feel about people who prefer a patron god over worshiping the whole pantheon, or who identify with the Vanir more than the Aesir? The sagas also speak of mean who are godless, but not necessarily in a negative way. They seem to be men who just consider religion and the involvement of the gods more trouble than it is worth. How does your tradition regard people like this?
I think there's a point to the fighting. The gods will die and Earth will be destroyed, but we can still win-- and whether we win or lose is going to determine the nature of the next world. Yes, my tradition holds that the gods are our ancestors. Our chieftain and gyðja have patron gods, but still honor the entire pantheon-- they're just closer to Odin and Freyja. I'm closer to some of the gods than others. Same really applies to people who worship the Vanir more than the Aesir-- that's a personal choice. I think people should honor all of the gods, but their relationship with the gods is their own to manage. I think they're missing out on something wonderful, but I don't think more or less of them as people because of it.
