‘More Masks, More Covid’: New Study Shows Masks Did Worse Than Nothing Against Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by XXJefferson#51, May 11, 2022.

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  1. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Wrong, but not unusual for you, states that wore more masks had more covid than states that didn't.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
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  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    From my first link published 3 months after the above citation.


    Conclusion considering ALL available evidence.
    It must really bunch your britches to have a farmer know more of all sciences and the scientific method than you do.

    I appreciate the ad hominem fallacy though.

    Just out of curiosity, why do you think a farmer can’t understand biology better than a guy who claims without evidence to be a physicist? What is it about farmers that makes you feel you are more intelligent or more knowledgeable just because you aren’t a farmer? I suspect it’s just you lashing out because I routinely show you are incorrect with irrefutable evidence. And it upsets you I have such a broad base of knowledge it’s easy to spot your errors. But if it’s something else I’d love to hear it.
     
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  3. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    See. this is why you should stick to farming.

    THAT DOESN'T MATTER!!!

    Three months is nothing. Conclusions from this epidemic will take years. And the papers you posted were started long before 3 months prior.

    Why do you think your farming expertise makes you an epidemiologist? Why do you play scientist instead of listening to the actual experts? Are you too busy getting wrapped up in crackpot conspiracy theories?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  4. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does matter. The link I posted considered YOUR link and ALL OTHER studies and meta analysis of studies to come to the conclusion there is no evidence to support the theory. Period. Full stop. There is NO evidence to support your opinion. None.

    If there WAS evidence to support the theory there would be meta analysis or literature review that concludes the opposite of what my link concludes. You would be able to cite it instead of making unsubstantiated claims and then getting all discombobulated when I show you are WRONG.

    This has nothing to do with my CHOSEN occupation. It’s following the evidence which shows there is NO evidence to support your claim.

    Oc course papers are started long before publication. Covid changed that to some extent. Publication times were shortened. But if you were an actual scientist you would know a review of evidence including meta analysis of studies published months after a single study that is inconclusive is superior evidence because it accounts for the evidence you posted and ALL OTHER EVIDENCE. Again, if there was actual evidence for your claim, you could post it. But you can’t because no such evidence exists. So you resort to ad hominem and other logical fallacy. Things no real scientist would resort to when confronted with evidence.

    I have CHOSEN to put my education and skills to use producing food. My expertise in epidemiology comes from a formal education on par with or superior to that of most human health care professionals in the subjects of general biology, microbiology, immunology plus a formal education far superior to that of the vast majority of healthcare professionals and researchers in nutrition and how it affects the immune system.

    I have been using that formal education to prevent, diagnose, and treat infectious disease in about a dozen species for about 25 years. I daily use vaccination, quarantine, nutrition, exercise, population density dynamics, antivirals, antibiotics, intravenous administrations of fluids/electrolytes/drugs, passive antibody transfer, probiotics, etc. in the practical application of epidemiology. I choose vaccines based on randomized controlled trials using my animals. That’s part of what makes me an expert. Practical experience plus formal education in biological sciences.

    BUT, as I’ve told you over and over. NONE of that matters on Political Forum. What matters here is my position is ALWAYS supported by evidence produced through application of the scientific method and published in peer reviewed journals. What matters in our conversations is your position is NEVER supported by the literature. This case being the most recent example. My position aligns with the evidence and yours is in opposition to the evidence. It’s as simple as that.

    I wish you would not cheapen the terms “science” and “scientist” by claiming to be a part of that realm while denying evidence and resorting to fallacy when shown your opinions do not align with evidence produced through the scientific method.

    I do not “play scientist”. By all accepted definitions I am a scientist. But again, that doesn’t matter. What matters is my posts are supported by evidence and yours are not.
     
  5. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Fear mongering.

    A mask does not stop a virus. Viruses are too small and mask pores are too large.

    I haven't done any of this crap since this whole thing started and I have yet to get sick with anything, let alone COVID. I've even spent days of extended time in the same room with my parents when they tested positive for COVID and I didn't get it. They got over it in days and it was no big deal, like any other mild respiratory illness.
     
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  6. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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  7. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    It's surprising that we have to go back to the basic NBC rules.
    A common face mask [surgical or FFP2 or others] stops droplets issued by the person wearing the mask.
    If you cough or sneeze without a mask your droplets will go around. If you're contagious you will infect someone else.

    Nothing more simple than this.
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Robert Malone is a farmer too. I've always liked farmers, and the well-informed farmers are especially pleasant. :angel:
     
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  9. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Dude they keep sweat and other bodily effluvia out of open wounds. That's why you wear a full surgical gown, the only thing stops a virus is a full on evh suit.
     
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  10. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    Saw a clip of some one reviewing a 2018 study in Japan. It found the masks physically did nothing. But if you think social distancing a good thing, someone in a mask made others, even if also wearing mask, wary of you. They kept their distance.

    I think the social distance thing far more destructive than helpful. Making people afraid to be near one another is, IMHO, socially destructive.

    EDIT: I think this link is referring to what I'm writing about: https://thefederalist.com/2022/05/1...ert-admitting-masks-only-work-to-cause-alarm/
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
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  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so your saying that wearing a mask made people social distance better?

    long term is socially destructive, I agree, risks to benefit needs to be weighed on all things, there was a short term benifit
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
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  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    You quoted one cherry picked item.
     
  13. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    I quoted what the source actually said and demonstrated that you guys were misrepresenting it. Deal.
     
  14. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Again you cherry picked one item that was even referencing the final opinion.
     
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    That's called a conclusion. Yes, I referenced the fact that the authors admitted that their conclusion does not support the conclusion you are trying to drag out of it. Thank you for admitting that you don't know "cherry picking" is.
     
  16. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    If they listened to me, the last Royal British Couple would have called their son "Dude", so that he would have grown as the "Dude of Sussex" ... not as the "Duke of Sussex".

    Now ...
    There are a lot of diseases which can be transmitted in the ways you mention: but when this really happens statistically?
    Have you have got Ebola? Monkeypox? HIV? Syphilis?

    I do hope you haven't.
     
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Nope I just have gout and a bad back. Should have taken better care of myself when I was younger. Apparently the primary spreader for monkey pox is gay orgies.
     
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  18. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    This means that I will never get monkey pox!
     
  19. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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  20. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    Most definitely was.

    upload_2022-6-21_16-6-56.png
     
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  21. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    And now for reality

    The current research results have shown that COVID‐19 is mainly transmitted via droplets in the air. There is a potential risk of airborne transmission in an indoor environment with poor ventilation. The distance of droplet transmission can extend up to 4 m. Based on this data, the recommended social distancing range of 1–2 m (CDC, 2020; WHO, 2020) may not necessarily guarantee the epidemic prevention. Therefore, wearing mask in public is essential as its effectiveness has already been well established by the current studies. For exhalation isolation, both surgical and N95 masks are shown to be effective in reducing the spread of respiratory diseases, but the former is more accessible and comfortable to wear compared to the latter. For inhalation protection, air filtering respirators such as N95 masks can filtrate contaminants, bacteria and other matters from reaching nose and mouth, and are more efficient in virus penetration inhibition than surgical masks.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7883189/
     
  22. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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  23. MuchAdo

    MuchAdo Well-Known Member

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    It is a correlational piece and everybody knows that correlation does not equal causation.

    Masks may be more effective as a “source control” because they can prevent larger expelled droplets from evaporating into smaller droplets that can travel farther.
     
  24. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    These are just the first 3 points of the 17 listed and examined in the post
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/‘more-masks-more-covid’-new-study-shows-masks-did-worse-than-nothing-against-coronavirus.599603/page-4#post-1073526927

    1. Medical masks adversely affect respiratory physiology and function.
    • Masks inhibit air flow into and out of the lungs.
      • For people with asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), and many other chronic lung diseases, face masks are intolerable to wear as they worsen breathlessness.[R]
    • Medical masks lower blood oxygen and raise carbon dioxide such that respiratory rate and depth of breaths are increased.[R]
      • Decreasing oxygen and increasing carbon dioxide in the bloodstream stimulates a compensatory response in the respiratory centers of the brain. These changes in blood gases result in increases in both frequency and depth of breaths.
      • As masks Increase both the frequency and depth of respirations (breaths), they increase the likelihood that each respiration will contain a larger amount of infectious viral particles. This may worsen the community transmission of CoVID-19 as infected people wearing masks exhale respiratory plumes loaded with greater levels of infectious viral particles. These infectious plumes readily move around the sides, bottom, and top of masks.
      • This may also increase the severity of CoVID-19 as the increased tidal volume delivers the viral particles deeper into the lungs.
      • These effects are amplified if face masks are contaminated with the viruses, bacteria, or fungi that find their way or opportunistically grow in the warm, moist environment that medical masks quickly become.
    2. Medical masks lower oxygen levels in the blood.[R]
    Wearing a mask for more than a few minutes causes a significant reduction in a person’s blood oxygen level.

    • Beder, A., U. Büyükkoçak, H. Sabuncuoğlu, Z. A. Keskil, and S. Keskil. 2008. “Preliminary Report on Surgical Mask Induced Deoxygenation during Major Surgery.” Neurocirugia 19 (2): 121-26. DOI: 10.1016/s1130-1473(08)70235-5
      • This study of 53 surgeons evaluated the effect of surgical masks on oxygen saturation of hemoglobin in surgeons performing surgery.
      • The study revealed the surgeons experienced a significant decrease in the oxygen saturation of arterial pulsations (SpO2) and a slight increase in pulse rates after one hour. The decrease was more prominent in the surgeons over the age of 35.
      • Given that a small decrease in SpO2 reflects a large decrease in partial pressure of oxygen in the arterial blood (PaO2)[R], the findings of this study suggests that surgical masks worn more than one hour may lower arterial oxygen enough to induce physiologically detrimental effects.
    • Here are two cases of the tragic consequences of forcing children to wear masks: Two Chinese boys drop dead while wearing face masks during physical exercise classes.[R][R]

      Two boys from two Chinese cities died of sudden cardiac arrest within a week. The first boy, 15, collapsed after jogging in PE class while wearing a face mask on April 24. The other boy, 14, reportedly died during a running exam while wearing a mask.

      Why would healthy boys drop dead while wearing masks and running in gym class?! To answer this question, we must consider how mask induced deoxygenation and increased oxygen demands of heart muscle during exercise could have precipitated heart attacks in otherwise healthy teenagers:
      • Point #1: Heart muscle needs oxygen to survive. And the harder the heart works, the more oxygen it requires. The American Heart Association says this about heart attacks:
      • "Your heart muscle needs oxygen to survive. A heart attack occurs when the blood flow that brings oxygen to the heart muscle is severely reduced or cut off completely."[R]
      • Point #2: Masks block air intake and decrease arterial oxygen.
      Studies of masked individuals have shown that mask wear decreases arterial oxygen. For example, the effects of surgical masks worn by surgeons in the operating room (an environment in which the oxygen blocking effects of masks are minimized by the high air flow, increased oxygen levels, and cool temperature of the operating suite) during major surgery showed a significant decrease in arterial oxygen.[R]

      The lesson here is that medical masks should not be worn during intense exercise. As described above and shown in the study of surgeons wearing surgical masks, medical masks block oxygen intake. Depriving the heart of oxygen while exercising, especially intense exercise, could precipitate an acute heart attack.
    Any questions? Wait...there’s more...

    • Jogger’s lung collapses after he ran for 2.5 miles while wearing a face mask [R]

      Mr Zhang’s left lung was punctured due to high pressure caused by running. The 26-year-old became breathless whiling jogging with a mask on in China. Doctors said his punctured lung was caused by jogging with a face covering. He is now in stable condition after undergoing an operation, the hospital said.

    • Hypoxia increases the risk of blood clot formation.[R]
    • Lowering arterial oxygen suppresses the immune system, thus increasing the susceptibility of mask wearers to infectious disease.
    3. Medical masks raise carbon dioxide levels in the blood.
    Although the body has robust mechanisms for mitigating transient and minor elevations of CO2 in the air we breathe, these mechanisms can easily be overwhelmed by chronic exposure to significant elevations in CO2, such as occurs with prolonged wearing of a medical mask.

    • The science clearly demonstrates that face masks cause carbon dioxide rebreathing and hypercapnia [R]
    • Exhaled air is rich in carbon dioxide, a waste product of cellular respiration.
    • A portion of carbon dioxide previously exhaled is inspired (breathed) at each respiratory cycle.
    • Masks trap CO2 rich respiratory exhalations at the mask-mouth interface, force re-breathing of CO2 rich exhalations, raise carbon dioxide blood (CO2) levels. [R]
    Masks are safe and effective! Hardly. They are however a hindrance and a health hazard.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  25. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Wow, what a surprise--today's NIH recommends wearing a mask useless against virus. Gosh, it's almost like politics rules the medical industrial complex. :lol:
     
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