“People who live with a gun present face twice the risk of death by homicide”

Discussion in 'Firearms and Hunting' started by archives, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    "It is a belief that helped drive a historic rise in U.S. firearms sales and first-time gun owners during the COVID-19 pandemic: Having a handgun at home for personal protection will make you safer

    "Groundbreaking new research conducted over a 12-year period shows that the opposite is true"

    "Between October 2004 and the end of 2016, adults in the state who didn’t own a gun but took up residence with someone who did were much more likely to die a violent death than people in households without a handgun, researchers from Stanford University found"

    "Those who lived with a handgun owner were almost twice as likely to die by homicide as their neighbors without guns, the researchers found. More specifically, adults who lived with the owner of a handgun were almost three times more likely to be killed with a firearm than in households where no handguns were present."

    https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...th-by-homicide
    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/P22-0004

    Is it any wonder that the NRA, ie gun manufacturers, with the aid of the GOP, have bitterly fought against any research being done on guns and gun deaths? Common sense, a gun in the house drastically increases your chances of becoming a victim of that gun, not the burglar or home invader, but rather by someone you know

    The precious post I offered further validate the fact - “Republican controlled states have higher murder rates than Democratic ones (https://news.yahoo.com/republican-co...212137750.html,
    https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-...murder-problem)


    Yet the right's solution to gun violence in America, again inbred by the gun manufactures' propaganda, is that more houses should have guns, the more guns, the safer one is, which has been proven to be erroneous
     
  2. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    This issue isn't that they think that guns make them or anybody else safer. Their objection is to the fact that they have the Constitutional right to own weapons.

    It's the same psychology behind a "diet". We don't like it when we feel "deprived" and studies have shown that people that continue to eat their favorite foods IN MODERATION, versus eliminating them completely, not only lose weight but keep it off. The human brain isn't designed to deal with "lack" so we push back against it instinctively.

    Further, nobody that carries a weapon intellectually thinks that it makes them "badder" on the streets. Those of us trained to handle them properly also know how to de-escalate situations. It's the ones that don't or can't that are the problem and there is no way to know who those people are until "after the fact"
     
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  3. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just starting to read the study, but more cherry picked facts to confirm a bias.

    They use statistics from 2004 to 2016, but then talk about the increase in sales of firearms during Covid. Well, that's a weird period of evaluation then, why 2004 to 2016.

    [​IMG]

    Ahh, I see. They picked a period in time in which homicide rates were very low. That would make the percent of those being domestic or resulting by co-habitants higher adding validity to their cherry picking.


    But let's actually evaluate the data.

    During this period of time, 12 years, they evaluated 866 homicide victims who were killed by co-habitants. Regardless if they used a firearm to kill their spouse/cohabitant, the tick mark was placed on whether they owned a gun. That sees like a weird way to quantify the results. Why would they not look at the actual means of perpetuating the murder... my guess, didn't confirm their bias.

    Further, during that period of 12 years, they evaluated 866 murders or 72 murders a year. Interesting:

    Total Murders by Year:

    2004 - 16,148
    2005 - 16,740
    2006 - 17,030
    2007 - 16, 929
    2008 - 16,442
    2009 - 15,399
    2010 - 14,772
    2011 - 14,661
    2012 - 14,866

    Total for Study Period - 142,987 murders


    So the study CHOOSE a segment of those murders, representing .006% of all murders, used the .006% to determine IF the perpetrated "was a gun owner", and then declared that "living with somebody that owns a gun is dangerous".


    The report also choose NOT to state that approximately 50% of those deaths used a knife or other means to kill.


    If you want to see a bullshit confirmation bias type study, presented as research, and then picked up by agenda driven fake journalism... here you go.
     
  4. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This supports the NRA's case against using tax money to produce misleading conclusions to be used to deny rights. How stupid must one be to believe that killers know who lives with a gun and that they prefer armed targets? What about the "violence rays" guns emit, altering ones mind and making them more prone to commit violence?
     
  5. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cherry picked data by anti-gun partisans does not a valid study make.
     
  6. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Define 'murder rates'. That would be people intentionally killing another person. Who does that? Criminals.

    U.S. Murder/Homicide Rate 1990-2022 | MacroTrends
     
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  7. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ya know, people who on fly planes have a greater chance of dying in a plane crash than people who don’t.

    What’s next, cars, knives, drugs, being a friend of the Clintons?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  8. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    On some level, there MAY be (some sort of) a point.
    BUT, why would one use the USA Murder Rates to make a point about...
    A study that deals EXCLUSIVELY with the State of California?

    (Pardon me for assuming that one would actually read the entire article before commenting).

    Summary for Patients: Homicide Deaths Among Adults Living With Handgun Owners in California
    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/P22-0004
     
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  9. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Banned

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    You failed to mention that within those Red States is a large city most likely run by a Democratic mayor that is responsible for the bulk of the Gun related deaths. Most of Tennessee is a pretty nice state, but then you have a Shithole called Memphis, Missouri is mostly peaceful, but it has St Louis with is also a Shithole. Then you have Louisiana, but New Orleans run by Democrats is a Murderers paradise. Blue States like Washington State where I live is 95% really nice, but it has a Liberal run shithole called Seattle, Oregon is also really nice, but it's got Portland which has become a Toilet. I challenge you to look up the 20 American cities with the highest murder and see what political party run um, I'll save you the time because they're almost ALL Democrat even though they're in Red States.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
  10. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Jesu, talk about cherry picking.
    Hell, talk about flat out obfuscation
    "There are three types of lies, lies, damned lies, and statistics" Mark Twain
     
  11. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Banned

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    I think home with Guns is most likely twice as likely for death by Homicide for the criminal intruder.
     
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  12. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you have a breakdown by race?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  13. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    And the gullible just keep marching to the front.
    Its amazing what you can get people to swallow these days.
     
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  14. balancing act

    balancing act Well-Known Member

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    I would respectfully disagree with that statement. People find power in having a gun all the time. I've seen it first hand.
     
  15. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's one of the reasons to own a firearm?

    Could it be because you are already at a higher risk for death by homicide? Cops, security guards, people who live in high crime areas... How is this controlled for in the 12 year study? What's a "neighbor"? Someone in the same town? Someone in the same county? Someone that lives immediately next door?
     
  16. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    The “Constitutional question” is variable, as everyone knows, no right is absolute, never has been, guns can be regulated. Secondly, no one is coming to confiscate guns, and last, vast majority of Americans never have any reason to “de-escalate” let alone need a gun to do such

    And comparing losing weight to being shot by a gun isn’t quite in the same ballpark
     
  17. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    All the generalizations used in the summary are foot noted and explained, and one of the reasons the data dates from earlier years is because research into gun violence is limited largely due gun manufacturers’ effort
     
  18. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Whew, that’s different, point is, which obviously went right over your head, that if they didn’t have the gun in the house their chances of being a victim of gun violence is reduced dramatically, not that “killers” are killing people who own guns
     
  19. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    And yet you offer nothing to invalidate it
     
  20. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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  21. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, but planes, cars, and knives are designed specifically to kill another, and, aren’t necessary
     
  22. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Given the scant availability of gun research, a national wide study would be difficult if not impossible, and the study employs California as its sample, routine
     
  23. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    What is the current event in your OP?
     
  24. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    “A large piece of the homicide story that is missing and calls into question the veracity of the right-wing obsession over homicides in Democratic cities: murder rates are far higher in Trump-voting red states than Biden-voting blue states. And sometimes, murder rates are highest in cities with Republican mayors.”

    “For example, Jacksonville, a city with a Republican mayor, had 128 more murders in 2020 than San Francisco, a city with a Democrat mayor, despite their comparable populations. In fact, the homicide rate in Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s San Francisco was half that of House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy’s Bakersfield, a city with a Republican mayor that overwhelmingly voted for Trump. Yet there is barely a whisper, let alone”
     
  25. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    So you trying to tell us that 45,000 Americans who died from guns were all “criminal intruders”
     

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