2 shot, 1 dead in Chaz

Then blacks should stop killing other blacks. That comprises a clear majority of all black deaths. Where are the top Democrats telling rioters to calm down? Nowhere. The Dems want those deaths, hoping Trump will overreact and send in the troops like I for one believe is overdue. We as a nation have a long legal history of posses and deputizations for bringing down our owlhoots. This is no different. Round 'em up and try 'em.

 

A pamphlet at the now abandoned CHOP instructed participants to vote for Biden and Inslee. Sounds partisan to me.

 

You're igoring policing. Without trustable policing, what's to drive the crime rate down??

Get real - everybody wants policing, only criminals are happy about minorities getting shot in the back.

Yes, we have a long history of policing. Police have been chartered with rounding up escaped slaves, busting unions of working class Americans so corporations can pay them to little to live on, maintaining white supremacy by protecting the KKK, and excusing those who lynch, drag live people behind their pickup trucks, shoot those who register minorities to vote, etc.


We have a history that included the fastest quick draw artist as sheriff - regardless of whether the guy is a criminal.

We're getting better, I think. We had a civil war over it. We had people sacrificing their lives by speaking out and by registering blacks to vote. It's not like Kent State and the objecions to our slauhter in Vietnam which came under indiscriminate live fire.

But, it is very definitely not over, as we still have people being shot in the back by police. We still have populations that can NOT trust the police.

We still have statues to Confederate traitors which were erected long after the civil war - for no possible reason other than as calls to hate.

 

That does not suggest that CHOP was about something besides what it said it is about.

Anyone can put up a campaign poster.

And, CHOP is not abandoned. I don't know where you got that.

 

Trust who, to do or not do what? I trust SELF-RESTRAINT. That is something the left definitely lacks.

Which Democrat Party leaders have specifically deplored this domestic terrorism?

 

I'm really impressed by how you are so fanatic in your attempts to make this a partisan issue.

Aren't there problems where we can just work on solutions to the problems without this constant CRAP about what Dems always do or what Repos always do???

And, isn't police killing black folks essentially domestic terrorism?

The FBI points out that the terrorism problem today is rooted in the white supremacist movement. The Minneapolis police force has had a HORRIBLE record there. They even killed an Australian tourist who called 911 for help. That force elected a representative who wears white supremacist insignia.

Are you claiming THEY carried out the Republican ideal?

Or, do you agree with protesters from AROUND THE WORLD who are outraged and understand that there need to be some changes?

 

No. It is usually the result of the person resisting arrest.

 

It's a tiny percentage of deaths of blacks. What do you call black on black killing? Besides the runaway leading cause of black deaths?

Being outraged doesn't make these numbskulls correct.

Oh, did you know the Dems killed the police reform bill? They really-really-really CARE!!!!!

https://www.dailywire.com/news/demo...ill-hope-of-passing-legislation-amid-protests

 

Seems like some sort of attention whore's credo.

Getting attention is good, even when it's bad.

 

New movie: “Escape From CHOP”

This time, Snake Plisken says : WTF? rescue that kook mayor? You gotta be $&@ten me!

 

BLM now means Burn, Loot and Murder.

 

It's not the raw number of deaths that is the issue.

It's the fact that the rate of homicide by police is a strong indicator of policing failing in America.

When the population can't even trust the police not to kill them, it's just not going to work. Plus, WE the PEOPLE hire police. If we don't like what they are doing, then we have EVERY RIGHT to fire them and fix the problem.

And, yes. They needed to kill that bill, becuase it would do absolutey nothing AND having acted on the issue it would be justifiable for congress to say that they won't at on it again, at least for a reasonable period of time.

 

"We" is absolutely correct. But "you" are not allowed to fire them.

 

Armchair warriors who have never seen actual police work rarely understand how violent some people can be during an arrest. It simply can NOT penetrate their consciousness that the cops must use even more force to complete that arrest (and do their job). Minneapolis is about to understand that once they disband their police department and it becomes Mogadishu, Minnesota.

 

How can you be sure that the "fix" won't just lead to more lawlessness, crime, and murder?

If the result of firing police and defunding police departments is 10 less black people killed by police officers, but 100 more black people killed by street crime, then what will have been gained?

Is 1 black life taken by a police officer worth 10 black lives taken by street crime?

If the goal of firing and defunding police is to save black lives, then all reason and logic dictates that you're doing it wrong.

 

Floyd was cuffed and on the ground.

There were 4 officers kneeling, with more than one of them having their knees in his back or on his neck.

He plead for his life, and the offiers killed him.

This is not a case of the officers being at ANY risk. It IS a dangerous job, but your point is NOT an excuse for what is happening.

 

I agree with you about extreme interpretations of "defund police", etc.

However, there are places where the citizenry has NO trust in the police and where police see the citizenry through the eyes of white supremacy and other bigotry - which can not possibly lead to "protect and serve".

I will say that when you have white supremacists on the force things have progress WAY beyond the point where simple policy changes or "classes" will be an effective solution. And, it's clear that white supremacy has reached into the leadership level in many forces.

I don't know how that gets solved without simply reconstituting a new police force.

Also, as our military buys less equipment for purposes of war, we've seen them selling there wares to police forces. Militarizing our police is just one more seriously wrong direction.

The poiice have to be seen as being on the side of the citizens they serve. In UK and other places, that is known and the policing direction can include officers in the field who have NO lethal weapons. I don't know what the heck is wrong with Americans, but that seems like a FAR superior situation.

 

No one is arguing that killing Floyd was not wrong.

How do you do that? Are you going to train three quarters of a million new officers?

The vast majority of the police are on the side of the citizens.
The majority of those killed were after they resisted or failed to follow the orders of the police. Even Floyd failed to follow the orders of the police. If he had gotten in the police care to start with, he would be alive today.
I have only repeated this numerous times. The way to save black lives is to stop resisting and to follow the orders of the police.

 

I agree that how to proceed from here is a difficult question.

The thing is, when it comes to attutides that are as entrenched as white supremacy and other forms of bigotry, I just dont believe that policy changes and classes for police to attend are useful. I've never heard of a white supremacist "changing" because they took a class.

I really think it has to have more to do with finding ways to select individuals who respect and form relationships with those they are policing. That, too, is not going to happen when the existing police department staffing is opposed to it.

There was NO EXCUSE for killing Floyd. Let's just agree on that.

Also, it may be necessary to increase salaries and training to create a well respected police force. When corporations find that a key function isn't doing well, they are more likely to increase salary and improve job definitions in order to attract better resumes. We make the same mistake with education - we think that if education is having trouble we should cut compensation or mae even worse job definitions!! We totally forget capitalism!

 

Given how much the police have been demonized, you could not pay me enough to be a policeman. Training and more pay will not do it. The problem does not lie entirely with the police and until that changes, there will be no significant change.

I am retired Air Force with a tour in Vietnam. When I returned from Vietnam in 1967, the general attitude towards the military was negative. It got worse until I retired in 1979. The problem was not the military. The problem was the job the military was given. An unpopular war. The attitude towards the military gradually got more positive after we got out of Vietnam.

The police have the same problem. It is not the police that is the problem. The problem is the job they have been given to do. They have the job of enforcing the laws against people who do not want the law enforced.

 

I'm reasonably aware of what happened with those returning from Vietnam. I was in college at the time and two of my roommates had returned due to permanently debilitating live fire wounds. Their injuries were serious, but not apparant to the casual observer. I absolutely support your concern about the treatment returning vets sometimes got, as they were those who served, not the ones who sent our troops to Vietnam - a huge difference.

However, we can't wait around in hopes that the population being policed will start trusting or liking the police.

The only way the opinion of those being policed is going to change is if they start seeing a police force they can trust and want to support.

 

Another liberal failure.

 

You will have to wait around, because it ain't going to happen.

The problem does not lie solely with the police and until this becomes apparent to the vast majority, nothing will change.

 

The problem is that they haven't created a large enough expanse of devastation and wasteland. They just need to take out more real estate is all. Then ruin it. Then they'll really have something.

 

I think it won't be easy to change. BUT ...

It's the police force that we have the ability to change. They work for use. We get to make actual decisions on that.

We are not going to cause the population to respect or trust the police more than they do today without making policing changes.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, thinking the results will be different.