Books are great, but if you only choose to read books which back up your own personal beliefs, you will never learn the truth or anything new.
A UNI education does not make one a deep thinker and man y UNI graduates are morons. I never called the middle class cherished I only called them middle class which means they are not poor. Obviously your trumpeted college education prevents you from thinking DEEP enough to grasp that fact.
Nothing I posted even remotely translates into the description you give of the middle class above. My statement that most military members comes from the middle class is fact and it is all I said about them <<< Mod Edit: Personal Attack >>> This was a discussion about veterans not class in America <<< Mod Edit: Personal Attack >>> The middle class certainly includes some people like the ones you mention above but most are not as you vlaim. <<< Mod Edit: Personal Attack >>> Most middle class people have comfortable jobs and homes , they often face difficult economic times such as now but then bounce back. The average cop is not holding a subsistence job but they are middle class. The average welder is middle class but is not holding a subsistence job and scraping by. The average factory worker, house painter, plumber we could go on and on about who proves your claim false. <<< Mod Edit: Personal Attack >>> One is well off if one feels like one is and most of the middle class may well feel well off. As for morality I never made any such claim nor can you infer from any thing I stated that the middle class has some high morality. Morality is something only individuals have and anyone of any walk of life may have strong OR weak morals. You are living proof that not only is your supposed claim of a link between liberalism and education deniable it is fiction you screech because you think you are <<< Mod Edit: Personal Attack >>>
I believe it was you throwing out such myths with your claims that the military is the choice of poor people due to lack of jobs.
Maybe the reason that so many soldiers flip out when returing is because they know the truth and when they come home they are surrouded by the Lie. My brother recently returned from Afghanistan and the first thing he did was resign his officers commission after 30 years he could not handle the carnage caused by the occupiers. Particularly the blown apart young girls of which he has two,he knew that the wounds came from the occupying troops not the Taliban predominantly.he worked in the operating theatres at the Air force base in Kandaha. The anti war movement is about to explode about time hey!
You got him. Some people choose to believe complete myths in order to back up their own mythology about the world. Facts aren't going to change that
If you had paid any attention you would know that this nonsense about soldiers flipping out is urban legend. Do some veterans commit crimes ? Yes of course they do. However the number of criminal veterans is no larger and in fact probably smaller than their % within the general population and in fact nothing links the criminal behavior of those individuals to their military service. In other words a criminal is just a criminal a few just happen to join the military at one time of another. Resigning ones commission as you claim your brother did is NOT flipping out. And if he served thirty years I am willing to bet he retired not resigned. Your whole story about him sounds dubious. Hate to disappoint you but the anti war movement has fizzled out and is not coming back in this war.
Very true. Some people make up their minds on something then only listen to facts which support that conclusion and totally ignore anything that doesn't. Wyly would make a great Neo-Conservative if he was an American citizen.
It makes no sense to me that there aren't better systems in place for country serving heroes to get the help that anyone else in this o(*)(*)(*)(*)ry seems to get so easily. It's awful.
Sadly the nation of the United Dhimmi Kingdom prefers giving immigrants top notch housing and benefits. Sadly the United Dhimmi KIngdom has not cared about those who contribute to the safety of the UK for decennia.
I have to agree with one of the other forum members- the term veteran needs a little more clarification. If the numbers presented in the OP encompass the general term (anyone who has served in the military) then I dont find those numbers too alarming. However, if those numbers reflect actual combat veterans who served in N. Ireland, Bosnia or the Middle East (S.W. Asia really) then Id have to say that theres a serious issue at hand. Statistics can be manipulated so I dont put a lot of faith in them to begin with- and my impression is that the general definition for veteran was used by the article. The military with an all volunteer force is a microcosm of its society. Conscripted forces are all together different. Having served/worked with both, I can tell you that the quality of troops in a conscripted force is far lower than those of a volunteer force. Also, volunteer forces offer many more incentives and opportunities than their conscripted counterparts that, in turn, determines the quality of the person when they eventually leave the military service. A person who serves two or three years in a conscripted force usually loses two or three years of their life- and when they get out, theyre exactly where they were before they joined. Thats simply not the case with volunteer forces. College programs, decent pay and multiple learning opportunities provide a plethora of options for Soldiers who voluntarily serve and at that point, its up to the individual to take advantage of those opportunities. Comparing the two is like comparing an apple to a bovine. Having served over 17 years in the military I can tell you that the climate and quality of the troops has changed dramatically since I joined in early 90s. When I joined, the majority of the volunteers were looking for college money, did their time and then got out and went on to bigger and better things. Those of us that remained did so because we either liked the lifestyle or chose to pursue other careers in the military that gave us a better education. As I said before, the military is a microcosm of its society- so yes, there is a criminal element but those numbers are far lower in the military than they are in the civilian world per capita. Today, however, the quality of those allowed to enlist has fallen dramatically. I personally blame this on the kinder, gentler approach the military has taken in regards to discipline by adopting civilian human resource methodologies. Kids who join because they lack personal discipline (be it financial, behavioral or educational) are finding it much easier to goof off than they did 15 years ago. Its almost like a fraternity party atmosphere- only you dont have to maintain a GPA. They serve four or five years today- spending much of their time deployed- and then get out because they cant deal with it anymore. The ones who stay in today do so because their either in debt or realize that they dont have the education or experience to maintain their quality of life in the civilian world. Contrary to popular belief, the military pays pretty well after you do two or three years. So yes, during an extended period of combat (like Vietnam as one member mentioned) the quality of the Soldier turned civilian drops drastically but thats a environmental/situational flaw, not a systems flaw. Again, comparing a military force during peace time and during a time of extended war is like comparing chickens to sugar. As for desensitization/dehumanization- Ill agree that we desensitize troops- we have to. Being a Soldier is NOT easy and its not for everyone. A moron could see that, so please quit about the tactics used by the military to turn civilians, whos greatest challenge in life was beating level 15 on a video game, into Soldiers who will rely on the man/woman to their left and right to keep them alive. The dehumanization of the enemy is just absurd. American Soldiers go through more training on respecting the natives than you can imagine. The rules of engagement (ROE) today are 1000X more restrictive than they were during Vietnam. Ive personally been shot at one minute by an insurgent and then 20 minutes later, Im giving him an MRE. That wouldnt have happened 30 years ago. So again, please quit with the slander that the military teaches its Soldiers to kill kill kill! Its just not true, and if you ever served in a professional military- youd understand that. Its business- not personal generally speaking, of course.
That's because the same people who cheer and send them off to war are lousy at taking care of them when they come back.
Most of them who come back from war do not need to be taken care of. Statistically , veterans tend to be healthier , more stable and upwardly mobile than their civilian peers.
Yes, they are screened very well. Some were found unfit and become television personalities or politicians instead. Even so, some need help and it is our public duty to help them as repayment for their service to our country.
Many are fit to serve and do so and then go on to become Television personalities and politicians after they leave the military. Sure a veteran who was maimed or hurt needs help and deserves it but most are fine. What help does Pat Sajak need? Famed television personality , host of Wheel of Fortune for decades and a Vietnam veteran. What help does Dennis Franz need? Famed television actor star of Hill Street Blues and NYPD Blue and Vietnam Veteran. What hep does Roger Staubach need? Famed quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys with two Superbowl wins. And a Vietnam veteran. Al gore ring a bell? Does he need help. Politician and Vietnam veteran. Society is finds it's future leaders among veterans. Business leaders, political leaders, military leaders, leaders in art and entertainment , leaders in science. Not all veterans are stars or highly successful most are average but they are successful people. The V.A. exists to assist those veterans who need help but one of the largest problems is not lack of concern or care for those veterans but instead fraudulent claims about who are the veterans and what is wrong with them. Such fraud detracts from real care from those men who need it. Part of this fraud is also the false stereotype that veterans are automatically messed up men. Criminal behavior , divorce , addictions , unemployment , mental illness and many other ordinary problems which many people suffer are somehow considered worse for veterans and believed to somehow be linked to military service. To make matters worse , as I pointed out early in this thread , anyone can claim to be a veteran and few bother to check that claim and verify it. Therefore anyone can claim that their military service caused whatever personal failure they suffer from in life.
Any news as to the foul treatment dealed out in britian to the hreos in the the War against terror????? If you don't treat returning soldiers nicely then you have very angry working class soldiers who are unhappy which threatens the very existance of the State itself now if a revolutionary party wants an army guess who we ask ??? First soldiers then ideas of freedom then REVOLUTION ! So has the British government made returning vetrans happy???? Sorry Austerity and cutting social services dosen't make anyone happy!
Actually the Armed forces are civilians in uniform in the US! Very few professional soldiers are sent to Afghanistan they are mainly reservists! Sorry I forgot the actions of the british government are the be all and end all of the Universe stop slandering the soldiers of the working Class in British Jails free my brothers they are class war prisoners! I need to transform their anger into revolution against the government that rejects the "Heros in the war against terror"BTW who PROFITS in the National Intrests of briyian in Afghanistan, Oh that would be the capitialist class! That is how ars that are not answered with revolution always end up ,money for the rich ,death and pain and rejection for the working class ! Next War or Revolution ,as class struggle by any other names is just as violent ,will be agianst the governments everywhere ! Any angry disefrancised workers just out of military uniform that have been rejected by a nation ????? get the point! your middle class serenity is about to be disturbed ,oh sorry i forgot about the kiddies and the London riots!
It doesnt surprise me. Its only recently that the Government started to address the issues about the introduction into civilian life after a career in the forces. I remember when i left. All i had was a short interview about what kind of jobs i would like to do, and then thats it your on your own. Today you get a bit more help,but if you have been in the infantry for 15 years you are still entering the jobs market with no skills at all except maybe leadership skills. Whilst most of the Army,Navy and Air Regimental Associations do a good job, the MOD needs to do more to help with new skills to prepare these people for the workforce. When you are in the forces, everthing is found for you,and your families if you are married. When you leave its hard for many to realise they are on their own with no support.
