61 dead Palestinians.... why did Trump do this?

I just can't see how the embassy move made any difference. I get that they see Jerusalem as being stolen from them, so of course they are angry, but how does an embassy move make that feeling of "theft" so much more great? If the mafia stole my car and then a number of years later I find out that they've made a change to the car, its not going to make any difference to how angry I am! I'm certainly not going to storm towards the mafia location and start throwing sh*t at it, threatening to enter their territory! That would be suicidal! I would just continue in my quest to get it back, as per normal as if nothing had happened. If Palestine had any sense, they would've done the same instead of having so many of their people essentially commit suicide!

LOL. I have, but you confused me by using even the hypothetical of Russia using a "legal trick."
If Russia was to take over the White House, it would be via force, not via some "legal trick!" THAT would be the hypothetical!

What is the White House & The Vatican equivalent sovereign building in Jerusalem which is being taken over in this case?

Why would it mean this? Why in the future couldn't there be a US Embassy in Palestine located in Jerusalem?

Well at least you're pointing blame at Hamas too. That's more than what others on your side are saying.

 

Okay, so in light of this:

...how do you explain this:

 

Then why didn't Abbas condemn Hamas for sending out people to their death instead of banging on about the US?

 

It's much more than that. It's their Holy City

They would have a better chance of doing it via a "legal trick".

What's a "sovereign building"?

Where did you read that there couldn't?

Definitely. But I was reminded that Mahomoud Abbas has worked for peace. Abbas, of course, is the President of the State of Palestine and belongs to the Party that is the political opposite of Hamas.

 

"Explain"?

I read your post 3 times and still have no idea what it is you want me to explain. Is it what "control" Trump has of the situation? Well, he can control how the announcement of the move is carried out, and if they attend a "gloating Party" or not.

Which is pretty obvious and it's stupid to have to explain it. So I assume it's something else what you want to know.

You need to polish your communication skills a bit.

 

Why did the muslim terrorist Hamas attack Israel?? If they would have stayed home no one would have got hurt.

 

Oh yeah I get that. What I don't get is how the US embassy makes it less Holy.

Are you serious? The White House belongs the US doesn't it? The Vatican belongs to The Catholic Church doesn't it? What building formerly belonging to Palestine was taken over by the US for its embassy?

How?

My point is that Abbas and Palestine should probably focus on regaining control of Gaza before they start worrying about regaining control of Jerusalem.

 

It is what control that Trump has over either Hamas or the Palestinians living in Gaza.

Yes but you clearly think that the control extends beyond this. Have you forgotten again what you disagreed to? This statement:

"Trump has no control over either Hamas or the Palestinians living in Gaza."

Please, once again, confirm whether or not you disagree with the above statement. If you still disagree, then you have to explain how Trump has control over either Hamas or the Palestinians living in Gaza.

Oh I think I've made myself clear. You need to polish your MEMORY skills.

 

Because Eastern Jerusalem officially belongs to Palestine. But establishing the capital in Jerusalem means the U.S. recognizes the whole city as belonging to Israel. And this is not just a problem with Palestine but with the whole Muslim world.

None that I know of.

Because we are taking sides on one of the main issue under contention. Maybe the most contentious.

They are focused on Israel following U.N. resolutions. The same that had already taken land from them anyway in the first pace.

 

Maybe so. But it's irrelevant to this discussion. The "yes" that opens your sentence above is the only relevant part.

You appear to like randomly jumping from one topic to another. I prefer to focus on one until it has been resolved.

If he has any control whatsoever, then the assertion that he has no control is inaccurate.

As for myself, I know that I made myself clear since the very start. You might want to read what my statements are responding to, instead of reading them isolated and out of context. It would save us both a lot of time.

 

So in other words Trump gets stuff DONE, while previous presidents just LIE about doing it, but never live up to those promises?

 

I blame religion.

 

Their* god promised this land to THEM, so of course they are going to kill/destroy - believing that they have the full support of their god.


*Actually, BOTH sides insanely believe this - so both religions are hurtful to the world, hurtful to peace, hurtful to humanity, hurtful to children.

 

Does that mean that the rest officially belongs to Israel?

Would it have been different if the embassy was moved to a different area to East Jerusalem?

Then why did you say that it was like the Russians taking over the White House or the Taliban taking over the Vatican and transforming it into a Mosque?

What if the democrats take office next? (Heaven forbid) Would there still be no possible future US role in a two-state solution?

So you don't think that they should be concerned about their own problems?

 

If its irrelevant then why did you even bother dignifying the poster who said it with a response in disagreement? Why didn't you simply say, control is irrelevant to this discussion?

Of course, but you have been unable to say what control he has over Hamas or the Palestinians living in Gaza. Only that "he can control how the announcement of the move is carried out, and if they attend a "gloating Party" or not." Unless you believe that this is somehow having control over Hamas or the Palestinians living in Gaza? Surely not. So, until you can do that, then it must stand that Trump has no control over Hamas or the Palestinians living in Gaza, in the same way that the Prime Minister of Australia has no control over The United States of America or the Americans living in it - because by default, a leader of a country has no control over other countries and its citizens. Is that news to you?

 

Why?

 

Well, we should stick with the definitions.

I don't see Israel as being interested in any change in Palestinian politics. Israel's actions have been oriented to driving off the Palestinian people as they steal their property.

If Netanyahu had been interested in reducing Hamas he would have supported the Abbas unity government. That would have ended the funding the Hamas government of Gaza gets from the charges for food, medicine and other goods crossing into Gaza - their only real source of funding. It would have put Hamas out of the business of distributing aid and otherwise reducing the role Hamas plays in Gaza. And, it would have made negotiations easier.

In his response to the Bush attempts at bringing about a negotiation, Netanyahu demanded that Israel be allowed to continue ethnic cleansing in West Bank DURING the negotiation for borders - a demand that makes it crystal clear that Israel has NO interested in a peaceful conclusion other than the elimination of the Palestinians as a people and the acquisition of their property.

 

It's an establishment in favor of Israel that is further confirmation that the US is strongly backing Israel's policy - a policy that includes the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from West Bank. And, it comes with no recognition of Palestine's long standing and fully legitimate claims.

The Israeli war against Gaza has been active for the last 10 years. That doesn't have to do with who the American president happens to be.

Those living in Gaza, in what amounts to a concentration camp, are protesting their treatment.

The US has totally relinquished its role as a peace broker. For a few years now, we have made ZERO moves toward insisting on a resolution.

Furthermore we have blocked efforts by the world community to do so.

Any claim that the US is an honest broker for peace in this case is just plain laughable. We've done absolutely NOTHING that could possibly back that claim.

First, let's remember that the Hamas government of Gaza is not the same as the other two branches that call themselves Hamas.

Much more importantly, Abbas made a move to subsume the government of Gaza in what was termed his unity government. In what has been a low point for Hamas in Gaza, Hamas actually ASSENTED to that.

Abbas demanded that they agree that solutions would come through negotiation, that NO violent means would be accepted, that the new government would have NO seats for Hamas. It would have meant that the West Bank government would have control of the Gaza border with Israel - which means that the charges for goods crossing that border would no longer go to Hamas, that Hamas would no longer have control of distributing aid (a huge political blow to Hamas), etc.

Netanyahu made immediate strong moves to kill that political direction.

He was successful in maintaining Hamas as the government of Gaza.

 

The position of Abbas vs. Hamas is WELL KNOWN. It's Abbas that made a strong move to END Hamas - a move opposed by Netanyahu.

The far greater catastrophe that is going on today is that the US has not just abdicated its position as an honest broker, but has moved to support Israel in its direction of ethnic cleansing of West Bank and its decade long war against Gaza.

Further, the US is strongly continuing its role in protecting Israel's direction from attempts by the world community to end this ongoing humanitarian atrocity.

 

Yes. But not the capital.

No. It's contrary to international law. Jerusalem is simply not the capital of Israel. This is explicit in International Law.

Don't remember exactly. But I can say that it would elicit the same angry response. Among Americans in the first case, and among Catholics in the second.

Why do you focus so much on peripheral examples that are meant to illustrate something, but not part of the point?

By doing that you waste your time, and my time. If you don't get the comparison, it's not a big deal. If you get it, then you understand my point better.

Much much weakened one, if any. Trump has managed to weaken our clout in any International negotiation whatsoever. And it was one of our great advantages. In the best of scenarios, it might take decades to recover. The world would need to see that we have learned our lesson and will not elect another uneducated moron to the President again. And that's going to take many electoral cycles in which all major parties show that they will act responsibly.

Hard task, given that Republicans haven't even begun yet.

That is their own problem.

 

I don't remember the context. But I can say one thing: if we don't educate these guys, who will? Not Hannity...

I don't know if "unable" is the right word. Maybe "unwilling", since it's off-topic.

Remember my "sig", I don't make such claims lightly. I research them. I have no reason to believe at this point that that would be of any interest.

Australia has no veto power over U.N. resolutions. Just to mention one thing.

There might be protests if Australia moved their Embassy to Jerusalem. I'm not sure they would be as "passionate", though.

 

Im sure Israel knows what area those rocket came from. They should carpet bomb that area with at least 100 2000 pound bombs. Maybe that would get their attention.

Or they should get one of the MOABs and drop it in that area. That would teach them to suck eggs.

 

If you research your claims, then whether it is off topic or not, you should be able to explain what control he has over Hamas or the Palestinians living in Gaza. Even just ONE single piece of control!

Even if it did, the UN can't control any country either! So the US's veto power over U.N resolutions is irrelevant in the US having control!

 

Can you provide evidence for this? Isn't it the case that international law ONLY recognises that it is disputed territory or even that east Jerusalem belong to Palestine? Why does Wikipedia state that the capital of Israel is Jerusalem?

Imagine in the future, that Hamas takes control of a part of Western Jerusalem by force. Would you be acting in the same way if a country decided to place their Palestinian embassy there?

 

What are you referring to here? What the hell did Netanyahu do to oppose ending Hamas?

How is it ethnic cleaning rather than self defense?

You mean from attempts by the joke organisation, The UN? You mean the disproportional number of resolutions made against Israel compared to any other country on the planet, including those who behead gays and women? The UN, who has Saudi Arabia (the woman's and gay rights violating capital of the world) and Afghanistan on their Human Rights council and
actually made Saudi Arabia the head of the council back in 2015! And we're supposed to take them seriously? Surely you can't be serious.