"A well-regulated Militia"

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Ronstar, Jul 12, 2015.

  1. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    Being in a militia is not a prerequisite or requirement to "keep and bear arms."

    The "right to keep and bear arms" is an individual right.
     
  2. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the whole point of having an armed public was to have a reserve army in case of emergency and to have a reserve army that can revolt against tyranny.

    ALL armed members of the public are part of the Public Militia, and are subject to Federal and State regulation.

    So says the US Constitution.
     
  3. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    Being in a militia is not a prerequisite or requirement to "keep and bear arms."

    The "right to keep and bear arms" is an individual right.
     
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  4. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    No, the Constitution says

    "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;" Article 1, Section 8.

    Congress used this power to enact the various Militia Acts, the latest of which is the Militia Act of 1903. That act is codified in 10 USC 311:

    "Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are - (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia."

    The unorganized militia consists of all able bodies males 18-45. Citizens and permanent alien residents who fall outside those parameters, ie, women or older men, still retain the right to keep and bear arms. Here's the kicker: you don't have to own a gun, or even want to own a gun, to be in the militia. Male, 18-45, you're in. That's why I want to see it mustered. Let's get all 100 million men who are between 18-45 out marching, shooting and digging field fortifications.
     
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  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the Militia is the whole point of the 2nd Amendment.

    to have a reserve army to be called forth during time of emergency and to resist oppression
     
  6. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Wrong. The point of the 2nd Amendment was to protect the right of the people to keep and bear arms so they could contribute to the security of a free state through being part of a well regulated (i.e., properly equipped and disciplined) militia.

    Part of that security includes enabling the citizen to secure himself, his family, his home, and his community through his right to bear arms.
     
  7. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    No it is not.
     
  8. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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    The NRA would be a great foundation for organizing the militia Ron. The NRA needs to preempt any crap from the gun confiscating Dems and lay down the law. Tell them no matter how they spin it, the 2A is not negotiable. Anyone attacking the 2A rights will be treated as a traitor.

    Here is the bottom line...

    The patriot will use their guns to defend the rights of the liberals...so the liberals can demonstrate to confiscate the patriots guns.
     
  9. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, the people were to be armed in order to defend the country as opposed to a standing army. Additionally, if the government formed a standing army the militia/people would be armed to defend the country from tyranny.
     
  10. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Conservatives would NEVER use their guns to defend the rights of Liberals, Progressives, non-whites or non-Christians.

    Never have, never will.

    But they did use their guns to enforce racist American Apartheid from 1890 to 1965.
     
  11. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Liberals, Progressives, non-whites or non-Christians all have Second Amendment rights. Your rights don't change because you have different political leanings.
     
  12. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The 2nd Amendment never intended to and never in writing rescinds Congress' and the States' authority to regulate, discipline, arm and supervise the Public Militia.
     
  13. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Of course it doesn't. Article 1 Section 8 gives Congress the right to arm, organize and discipline the militia. It's that the Constitution doesn't grant the feds the power to restrict firearms ownership of citizens at all.
     
  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    regulating the Militia means they have some say over which weapons are owned and by whom
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The public is better suited for the use of asymmetrical warfare and guerilla tactics that leave professional fighting forces unbalanced and weakened.
     
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  16. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    No, it only allows them to regulate the militia arms. The government is empowered to tell me that I'm in the militia and that I must have an AR-15, or that the military can only be armed with pikes, but they are not empowered to tell me if I can own a 30 round magazine.

    Until you understand that, you're not going to get anywhere.
     
  17. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Incorrect. The types of arms used for militia duties can be specified, for the purpose of ensuring common calibers and components. But it does not authorize dictating which firearms may actually be owned by the public.
     
  18. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Congress and the States have the following authority over the Public Militia:

    to regulate, arm, discipline, and supervise.

    If you think this means they can't regulate which arms the Public Militia possesses and by whom, you're kidding yourself.
     
  19. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    You keep conflating the public and the miltia, and assuming powers over the public that simply don't and have never existed.

    How many times is the word "militia" mentioned in the Gun Control Act of 1968, the FOPA 1986 or the Brady Act ?
     
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  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's try this again.

    The US Constitution mentions the Militia several times.

    The Militia is made up of all able-bodied citizens.

    The purpose of the Militia, is to defend & protect the nation during times of emergency.

    And to fight against government tyranny.

    The Constitution gives Congress the following authority over the public Militia:

    to arm, discipline, supervise and regulate.

    this includes regulations over firearms.

    That's why the Supreme Court has REFUSED to hear any appeals of State assault-weapons bans, even though only 4 Justices are requires to decide to hear such a case and the Supreme Court has 5 Con Justices.

    The Congress and the States have the Constitutional Authority to regulate the Militia, within reason.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  21. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    No.

    Congress only has power over the militias, not the individuals.
     
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  22. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Militia is ALL able-bodied citizens of the USA.
     
  23. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Let's stop there. It's not. It's made up of whoever Congress decides is in it. It's only made up of the National Guard and 18-45 year old males, according to current law 10 USC 311. There is no disputing this.

    How can a militia fight against government tyranny if the feds control every aspect of the organization and arming of the miltia?

    Of the militia, not of the citizenry.
    Pure supposition on your part. And it's 9 justices at full strength.

    No, Congress has full authority to regulate the miltia in any way. If Congress decides that the militia consists of 12 blonde men from each state equipped as Vikings, and passes the Militia Act of 2018, that by law is the new organization and allowable arms of the militia. Article 1, Section 8 is unequivocal in that power.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  24. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Then why has this supposed authority never been utilized by the united states congress, despite apparently possessing it since the inception of the country? Why did the government not set a nationalized standard of acceptable firearm, and outlaw all variations?
     
  25. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Congress begs to differ.

    10 U.S.C. ยง 311
    Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes
    (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of
    age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or
    who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of
    female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
    (b) The classes of the militia are -
    (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval
    Militia; and
    (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are
    not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

    There's a quote by Ron White that's coming to mind.
     

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