Abortion: Rights...

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by pwillie, Feb 27, 2024.

  1. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    And? It's still an issue about the woman's health and/or the health of the offspring. This includes any potential health risks that they would could go through. The presence or lack of STD's don't figure in on the decision, at least in and of itself. But overall, STD's don't affect abortions and abortions don't affect STD's. Health and health risks are pretty much all abortions are based on. Third trimester abortions are a minority, regardless of condition.
     
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  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yes and some are choosing to let women die
     
  3. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    That's not what he was responding to with that post. Not saying that he didn't make that overall statement or intent. Just not with that post that you quoted.
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  5. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    change doesn't happen at the snap of the fingers. Have the voter in those states actually done anything?
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    U.S. states that fully legalized abortion were letting women die too.
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The California constitution protects the rights to abortion and contraception. It guarantees women the right to an abortion before the fetus is viable, or when it's necessary to protect the woman's health or life.

    So, what women are being left to die by CA?
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The maternal mortality rate in North Dakota, for instance, is 8.7, while in California it is 10.1

    The maternal mortality rate in Missouri is 32, while it is 76.8 in New Mexico.
    Missouri is restrictive on abortion, while New Mexico has almost no restrictions whatsoever.

    Idaho and Montana have similar maternal mortality statistics, even though Idaho is moderately restrictive while Montana is moderately pro-abortion.

    If we ignore the Deep South region (the areas with a high African American population), there is not too much of a correlation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2024
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't accept your ideas here at all.

    In fact, your last sentence is outright racist.
     
  10. bclark

    bclark Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure most people don't want to endanger the life of a woman. This discussion is really about a corporation making money off the misfortune of others. STDs are nasty in they often result in infertility, so yes they don't factor in to abortion statistics. I also don't think that saying murder is rare, so we should just legalize it is the answer.
     
  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Women are dying or being left with life long disabilities
     
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  12. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    The the states and their citizens should do something about it. The Constitution gives them the power to do so.
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Lols! Have you compared those rate to elsewhere in the developed world? If I were you I would NOT be highlighting ANY MMR rates anywhere in the US.
    upload_2024-7-24_9-45-50.jpeg
    Do you know what Australia’s MMR rate is
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1240400/maternal-mortality-rates-worldwide-by-country/
    2 not 20 but 2. Want to explain to me why the USa’s MMR is so freaking high?

    But let’s look at the whole picture and not cherry pick - firstly - where are your stats on morbidity not just mortality? Second how about a complete comparison of all states not just those that are “convenient”. Plus MMR is multi factorial https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...nal-mortality-crisis-international-comparison
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Then why is your MMR ten times Australia’s?
     
  15. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Not sure there's any connection between states passing abortion legislation and whatever MMR is
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Research mate there is a ton of research
    QUOTE]
    In June, the Supreme Court in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization overturned Roe v. Wade, changing America’s health care landscape. This triggered new and existing legislation in states seeking to restrict abortion, which will deepen already-existing inequities among states in terms of access to abortion, maternal health, and reproductive health services. These new laws will have a disproportionate impact on low-income women and women of color as a result of factors including an increased likelihood of being uninsured and decreased likelihood of having jobs with adequate wages or employer-based coverage. In this post, we examine how reproductive health care in the United States compares with care in other high-income countries to draw lessons for how U.S. policymakers could work to improve women’s health.


    [/QUOTE]

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/bl...erican-women-impacts-health-economic-security
    abortion is not the only factor

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...nal-mortality-crisis-international-comparison

    Our rural and remote centres have the same issue but fortunately RFDS have midwives on board. (Royal Flying Doctor Service)
    [
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Maternal Mortality Ratio.

    The campaigns for ending abortion ignore the damage to women's healthcare.

    Because of the risk of prosecution and difference of belief, OB/GYNs are in short supply in many areas where there are laws that threaten both doctors and patients with poorly worded law that prosecutors are free to interpret.

    This needs to be a rights issue - the right of personal bodily autonomy. Patients are explicitly involved in courses of treatment for all other cases involving treatment.

    It's not rare for the majority to fail to support rights. We see that every day.
     
  19. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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  20. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    the numbers for complete abolishment is a small minority according to most polls.
    And how are YOU supporting rights? Laws can change if people work to change them. What have you done?
     
  21. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the point.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Once again, places like TN have few OB/GYNs. The number at risk is more than just the number that need (or want) an abortion.

    Also, I don't always accept the idea that if a new law only kills a few, then so what.
     
  23. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    The the people of those states create laws that make them more attractive to OB/GYNs
     
  24. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    My post that she quoted is the point. With abortion referred back to the states it's up to them to create the programs and laws THEY want. Make not mistake this is not a finger-snap chore, but poles show broad acceptance of some form of abortion laws; everything from an "Abortions 'r' US" on every corner to much more restrictive terms such as non-viability, rape, incest, health of the mother, etc.
     
  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Look it is simple but multi factorial and the essence relies on “when is too sick sick enough for a medical practitioner to risk their registration? This question is not unique to America. We saw it here in Australia esp QLD in the case Bayliss v QLD health https://www.oic.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/7387/1995_S0176_Bayliss_28_04_1997.pdf. Where Bayliss was running an abortion clinic but was actually protected by the “freedom of information act” where it was found that the police could NOT access private health records of women ergo they could not prove that the abortion was not performed “for the life and health of the mother”. In effect tossing the law out. This was also the essence of RvW privacy of medical information. The reason for the abortion was solely between a woman and her doctor. Ireland as more complex because performing an abortion could lose an MD his/her licence until Savita Halappanavar.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar
    upload_2024-7-24_13-13-14.jpeg
    That one case caused an outrage in Ireland and the law was overturned
    Previously Irish women had been crossing to England where although abortion is technically still illegal however
    https://www.bpas.org/our-cause/campaigns/briefings/abortion-law-in-great-britain/
    peripartum depression is very very real and life threatening

    The biggest issue is that you do not know what it is driving the woman to choose abortion
     

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