Amantadine a cure for COVID-19?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by aspagnito, Jan 17, 2021.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    this is a translation from Polish article:
    https://www.medonet.pl/koronawirus/koronawirus-w-polsce,koronawirus-w-polsce--amantadyna-w-terapii-covid-19--badania--decyzje-mz,artykul,02812179.html

    Amantadine a cure for COVID-19? Already in April, Poles were the first in the world to describe its possible effectiveness in the treatment of coronavirus. There are reports that Cambridge scholars have become interested in the research of our scientists. The Health Ministry announced the launch of the clinical trials on December 15, more than seven months after the publication of the Polish researchers' observations.
    Amantadine is used among others in the treatment of neurological disorders: Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, acute brain injury (a full treatment costs about $10). Research on the action of amantadine has been conducted for a long time by two Polish scientists. Based on their observations, they suggested that amantadine probably protected COVID-19 patients from a severe course of infection. Amantadine was not included in the recent third recommendations of the Polish Society of Epidemiologists and Physicians of Infectious Diseases for the treatment of COVID-19. On December 15, the Minister of Health announced that the Medical Research Agency has initiated a clinical trial for the use of amantadine in the treatment of COVID-19.
    What is the medicine called amantadine? Amantadine is a drug used among other things in the treatment of neurological disorders. It is officially used to treat Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, acute brain injury. The preparation also exhibits antiviral activity (inhibits the replication of viruses by affecting their genetic material) and may inhibit the infection of respiratory cells. This has led to its use in the treatment and prevention of influenza A in adults. In Poland, drugs with amantadine are available in the form of tablets or oral capsules and solution for injections. You can only buy them in pharmacies with a prescription.
    Amantadine in the treatment of COVID-19. Observations of Polish scientists:
    The drug became famous in November, when Włodzimierz Bodnar, a paediatrician and lung disease specialist from Przemyśl, published his opinion on how to beat the virus online. The doctor argued that by using amantadine, COVID-19 could be cured in 48 hours. " I claim that with this method of treatment, at least 99 percent of severe cases in Poland currently in hospital treatment can be stabilized within 48 hours, followed by a period of several days of recovery," he wrote. As reported by PAP, the doctor asserted that he has documented more than 100 cases of recovery from COVID-19 disease using the drug.
    Meanwhile, research on the effects of amantadine has been conducted for a long time by prof. Konrad Rejdak, head of the Department of Neurology of the Independent Public Clinical Hospital No. 4 in Lublin and prof. dr. hab. n. med. Paweł Grieb, head of the Department of Experimental Pharmacology of the L. Reich Institute of Experimental and Clinical Medicine. M. Mossakowski PAN. Researchers tested how amantadine works to treat COVID-19 in patients with Parkinson's disease and multiple sclerosis. In late April, the researchers described the results of the observations. It turned out that, thanks to amantadine, some people were "passing the infection quite mildly". The authors suggested that the drug probably protected these patients from a severe course of coronavirus infection. But, as prof. Rejdak, more extensive research is needed to make a full assessment.
    Similar observations have been reported by scientists in other countries, including the United States, Mexico, Spain. Media emphasize that the publication of Polish professors was the first of its kind in the world. It was recently addressed by experts from the University of Cambridge. After reviewing the medical records of 13,000 seniors with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease came to similar conclusions.
    "There is no basis for the use of amantadine in SARS-CoV-2 infections"
    Amantadine was not included in the recent third recommendations of the Polish Society of Epidemiologists and Infectious Disease Physicians for the treatment of COVID-19 (published October 13, 2020). - We didn't do it because we didn't think it would be necessary. There is no factual or scientific basis for the use of amantadine in infections caused by the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus - explained the president of the society, prof. Robert Flisiak. The topic returned when Marcin Warchoł MP also posted an entry about the preparation: "Amantadine works on COVID! I'm an example. First my son, then my wife, and finally me: high fever, extreme pain, severe cough, according to the doctor, so 7 days, and then the climax, so I took amantadine - an amazing effect! It worked!" - wrote the politician. - I will demand @MZ_GOV_PL to take care of this drug," he stated.
    The Health Ministry responded to MP Warchoł's Sunday post on Monday. As Wojciech Andrusiewicz, a spokesman for the Ministry of Health, pointed out, amantadine was subject to an opinion of the Agency for Health Technology Assessment and Tarification. There is one opinion, and a very significant one: there are no large-scale clinical trials to date which would confirm, on the one hand, the efficacy of amantadine in the treatment of COVID-19, and, on the other hand, the safety of such therapy. So we as the Ministry of Health cannot recommend therapies that are not tested," he stressed. - Remember, for treatment of a specific disease, there must be a clinical trial with efficacy, quality and safety assessments. At present, there are no such clinical trials on a large scale, hence there is no recommendation from our side, but I would also like to point out that there is no recommendation from the Polish Society of Epidemiologists and Doctors of Infectious Diseases - explained the spokesman for the Ministry of Health.
    Minister of Health: a study has been launched on use of amantadine in COVID-19 treatment The issue of amantadine in the treatment of SARS-CoV-2 was addressed by the Minister of Health, Adam Niedzielski. On Dec. 15, he reported that the Agency for Medical Research had initiated a clinical trial for the use of amantadine to treat COVID-19. The signals that were coming to us about the use of amantadine for other purposes prompted us to look into the question of whether it could deal effectively with coronavirus in any way. That's why more than a month ago I ordered the Agency for Health Technology Assessment and Tarification to review the world literature so that, based on evidence and objective scientific studies, it could make recommendations as to whether this agent can also be used in the COVID-19 therapeutic process - said the head of the Ministry of Health.
    Unfortunately," Niedzielski stressed, "there is no such literature. There are only three items of scientific studies, which present very incomplete evidence, the population was never comprehensively covered by the study and therefore the Agency for Health Technology Assessment and Tarification issued a recommendation of non-use, the lack of scientific evidence of amantadine efficacy - emphasized Adam Niedzielski. Regardless of that recommendation, he said, he asked the Agency for Medical Research to conduct a clinical trial. In the near future, the facility will commission such tests at two centers. - In fact, this process has already begun," the minister said.
     
    phoenyx and Eleuthera like this.
  2. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    19,083
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sounds legit to me!

    COVID is cured!
     
  3. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    From what I understand, your statement is a taunt. Well this quote from the article is a statement from a politician that moved the whole thing forward. It is disturbingly puzzling that the Polish Ministry of Health delayed 7 months with any response to a request for in-depth studies of this alternative to vaccines (this alternative is a good adjunct to vaccine therapy), and then issued a negative opinion for lack of evidence - only that it was the Ministry of Health that was asked by a serious pulmonologist for in-depth studies. Had it not been for the intervention of this politician - the matter would have been bogged down, and so the Ministry was forced to respond and conduct research.

    Another puzzling aspect of the case is that Europe today has a vaccine problem - China is paying more, so the vaccine is in short supply in Europe. So Europe will vaccinate once in 1.5-2 years. While immunity from the vaccine lasts for 4 months. However, I understand that troll irony is something that is always at a premium.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  4. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    19,083
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your use of the word "taunt" from my comment might be less apropos than maybe "sarcastic", there is a certain distinction to the description of "taunt".

    If the intense pressure to defeat COVID did not get a promising enough to support a basic 100 cases of COVID-sick people and the proponent couldn't find some organization or person to a basic trial for this Amandine drug (as a claim "Look, A 100 people didn't die!"), I would suggest no legitimate medical authority was not impressed for some reason.

    The idea it would be an "adjunct therapy" seems particularly a strange application- wouldn't "if vaccine fails"?

    And vaccine hasn't "failed after 4 months", so far vaccines have succeeded for 4 months and continues to succeed because it has only been applyed for 4 months.

    I believe Europe, right now, is planning to be planning to be ready to repeat the vaccines in 1.5 to 2 years IF the vaccine is becoming ineffective because humans lose their immunity or if the disease has changed enough to elude the vaccine immunities.
     
  5. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps I'm being carried away. I am not a medical doctor, but a computer science engineer who is now out of the profession, but I am trying to start a career as a writer. Maybe I'm actually gluing the facts together too much and it comes out as one big conspiracy theory with enemies and allies.
    In a way, you praise the vaccine so much. As if it shouldn't be supplemented with any other therapy. But did you know that in Spain, for example, as in practically every other country, medical services and seniors were vaccinated first, and of those vaccinated seniors, seven hundred are already sick with coronavirus? It's a bit like the vaccine doesn't work at all, don't you think?

    Here is one of the sources:
    https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomo...-zakazenia-wsrod-zaszczepionych-covid-19.html
    It's in Polish.

    Here is the article:

    Infections are increasing among those vaccinated against Covid-19

    Several hundred people vaccinated against Covid-19 in Spain have been infected with the coronavirus, according to estimates by the Madrid-based Europa Press agency, citing statistics from regional health services. Meanwhile, there is a growing body of experts calling on the government to declare a lockdown. Europa Press reported that most new outbreaks of coronavirus infection have occurred since the weekend in nursing homes.
    According to the agency, more than 100 people who were vaccinated with the Pfizer/BioNTech product have become ill with Covid-19 in senior care facilities since early January. This includes residents of these facilities as well as staff members. Until Wednesday, the highest number of cases of the virus in nursing homes had been recorded in the autonomous communities of Castile and Leon, Navarre and Catalonia. Tuesday's declarations by Health Minister Salvador Illa show that so far, medical services have already used more than 60 percent of the doses of vaccines provided by Pfizer and BioNTech. The government representative added that despite the arrival of the third wave of the epidemic, the cabinet of Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez does not intend to declare a lockdown.
    The opinion of the Minister of Health has been criticized by many medical experts, including. prof. Alberto Infante of the Madrid-based Instituto de Salud for Health. Charles III. In an interview with Cadena Ser radio on Wednesday, he called on the government to immediately declare a lockdown.
    "If we don't lock people out of their homes now, we will pay for our failure to do so in a few days with serious public health consequences. Restrictions do not have to be long term. The announcement of a two-three week lockdown is enough," the epidemiologist said. Infante pointed out that confirmation of his concerns is over 25,400 new SARS-CoV-2 infections recorded between Monday and Tuesday in Spain. He pointed out that this is one of the highest daily infection rates in the country.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  6. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    6,559
    Likes Received:
    588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    About persons getting Covid after the vaccination, It's useful to underline that you need two jabs and about 28 days to become immune.
    After the first shot you can still get Covid [after 14 days you've got only a 40-50% of immunization, if I remember well].

    Until next late Spring the diffusion of the vaccines won't be decisive to slow down the pandemic.
    So it's obvious that we are observing lockdown periods and restrictions around.
     
  7. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    4,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You article demonstrates a stark problem with things like this. It opens with people claiming this treatment could be a cure for COVID-19 and works for 99% of patients yet the (limited) evidence actually suggests it is a treatment that could reduce symptoms and only considers a small number of patients. Gross overselling of a treatment as some amazing cure like this and condemning governments, scientists and doctors who don't immediately jump on the band-wagon will inevitably lead to knee-jerk reactions against the idea and, ironically, delay any serious study. How much is this about doing something to help and how much about being seen (apparently) doing something to help?
     
  8. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    For a start China has produced it's own vaccines. And as of this date it is not relying on Western Nations as a source of supply for COVID vaccines. And also as of this date there has been no definitive reports published in legitimate scientific journals confirming the efficacy of amantadine (and related drugs) in the treatment of COVID. It may subsequently prove to be efficacious in the treatment of COVID. It may not. Until then your post remains as valid as claims about hydroxychloroquine.
     
  9. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,116
    Likes Received:
    7,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I hope it works out that it's a drug that helps in one way, or many. But as of now it's obvious some focused research is necessary.
     
    aspagnito likes this.
  10. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    A vaccine may reduce the number of sick people, but it won't eliminate the disease - because all it takes is for one sick person to keep the virus and there will be a repeat. Lots of people get infected e-very-day and some of them die. I understand that you are of the opinion that such people should not be helped - after all, there was a vaccine - one should vaccinate oneself! It could be called ironic, except that it's not funny at all. I emphasize, amantadine is a good adjunct to vaccine therapy and similar drugs have been sought for months. Such drugs as quinine or clopixol, but it turns out that amantadine is the best of them. We know this, although research on this fact is just beginning.

    The problem with statements like yours is that if you really read the article, you'd read something like this:

    "Similar observations have been reported by scientists in other countries, including the United States, Mexico, Spain. Media emphasize that the publication of Polish professors was the first of its kind in the world. It was recently addressed by experts from the University of Cambridge. After reviewing the medical records of 13,000 seniors with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease came to similar conclusions."

    It's obvious that something big starts small.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    4,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What the heck lead you to "understand" that? I'm only talking about how things should be reported, nothing either way about the treatment of patients.

    And that in itself is fine. I'm talking about statements referring to this as a possible cure, which is simply false. As I said, that kind of exaggeration and misinformation will be counterproductive, actively discouraging people from taking the actual potential benefits seriously.

    That is a direct contradiction and demonstrates the problem I'm talking about. We don't know what the results of the research will be - that's why we have research. There is clear evidence of some benefit but the exact details and, significantly, any disadvantages or risks that need to be taken account of haven't been determined. The problem is that those who have already ben convinced this is the magical cure it has been presented as will dismiss out of hand any research that in any way challenges that assumption.
     
  12. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Okay. I must agree with your statement. But as far as I understand you say "this is a hoax, that misleads people and makes them believe there is a magical cure". The hopes are obvious - human life is at stake. So just because right now we know very little (but not nothing), I say let's wait. If tests on 13000 seniors do not convince you - okay, we should have something more reliable - full tests on the whole world - but who will do that and why? Who will do that if there is not even any rumour about it?
     
  13. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    6,559
    Likes Received:
    588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  14. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    And these are positive news. But scientists search for more and more drugs. The problem with such drugs and this situation is that, when such news are released - the meds are no longer available to buy. Everybody, healthy or sick, buys them. Amantadine is no longer available to buy anywhere in Poland.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    23,009
    Likes Received:
    11,905
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Taunting is about all the defenders of the official narrative have in their repertoire. The facts contradict the narrative, and as Plato noted centuries ago, when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.

    Thank you for the news from Poland. I had not heard of that drug before, so this could be seen as good news.

    Unless, of course, one is an apologist for the Fauci Narrative. In that case, this news from Poland is seen as bad news.
     
    aspagnito likes this.
  16. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm just a person who wants to do something good once in a while.
     
    Eleuthera likes this.
  17. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    My views are rather centre-left, although the conservatives in Poland are actually implementing centre-left postulates - small, systematic and universal social assistance that optimises budgets, rationalises spending and improves the economy. It has nothing to do with real aid according to Marx. Simply put, once a month each family gets (by American standards, not currency) some 300USD for each child. If you have three children, for example, the amount is three times higher. When this program was introduced it was called a return to hard communism and it was said that the budget was not made of rubber and would not stand it. It turned out that thanks to this program, inflation was kept under control for a very long time, Poles' savings grew, consumption decreased, the economy improved and Poles lived better and better. Today, no major party in Poland can imagine Poland without this social programme.
    That was two steps forward, but the Conservatives also took one step back with the introduction of the "thirteen" (from the thirteenth month) program. Once a year, pensioners get their pension doubled. So it's neither small nor systematic - people behave as if this money is going to be taken away from them, so they spend it as quickly as possible, and big corporations make a heist on this money - doing aggressive advertising campaigns and driving up prices. Since the introduction of the "thirteen", inflation has gone from 2% to 3. 5%, which from certain perspectives is probably even a little better. Unemployment also rose slightly, but many businesses note that this is a little better, as labor costs rose a little too aggressively after the 500+ program was introduced. The only advantage of thirteen is that practically everyone in Poland today can afford holidays, and the merit of both programmes is that the middle class has large savings and the middle class in Poland is growing.

    Thanks to this conservatives won like seven major elections.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  18. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    6,559
    Likes Received:
    588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Molnupiravir is still far from being present in pharmacies [if you are not a ferret, obviously].
    It's used in hospitals at experimental level. It will take at least an other year to be sure it can be given to the general population [it would be a free access medicine. So, it's better to be sure].
     
  19. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    4,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I never said "hoax" (somewhat ironic give I'm arguing for clear and accurate public statements ;) ). The fact human lives are at stake is all the more reason why we (and especially professionals in the field) need to be careful with how we all talk about the situation.

    Yes, but people being quoted aren't saying wait. They're saying that they've already proven this drug is a cure for COVID and that is a dangerous lie. If you're going to discuss this, you can't just say the right things yourself, you need to actively call out the ones say the wrong things, especially if you're using their statements to support your position.

    Don't let them distract you with the big numbers. Those weren't tests, they were reviews of existing medical records of patients taking this drug for other reasons. It's valid research in itself but not the be-all and end-all and there is obviously a massive range between that and "full tests on the whole world". Research can and should be done in relation to this drug and COVID. It wouldn't surprise me if that research isn't already happening in fact. The immediate problem here is that the people who make all the noise in (and money for) the media aren't the ones carefully considering the evidence of potential treatments, it's the ones wildly speculating about amazing cures.
     
  20. aspagnito

    aspagnito Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Nevertheless let's wait. Right now there are tests being made and even if they miraculously show nothing, rumour is enough to make other actions happen.
     

Share This Page