American cops; are you happy with their approach?

I recognise that the US is a huge and diverse country, but are you happy with the approach of your cops?

Here is my take;

Cops - they are trained in conflict management, they are public experts in reducing tension, therefore one can reasonably expect that they will always take lethal action as a last resort and therefore those shootings, chokings of black men are practice failures that those individual officers must be punished for.

They have singularly failed in their task to protect the public - and even suspects are members of the public - until you Americans understand that and stop your cops being so gung ho all the time this problem can only grow until you have a local insurgency on your hands.

The best example of American thinking is the aftermath of Katrina - thousands of cops rolled in with raised M16s and M4 - it was the army that had to tell them to lower their weapons - that tells you all you need to know about American law enforcement personnel (many many cops wanna be soldiers without the threat of IEDs and going to a warm bed every night ).

 

I have found it to be extremely easy to not get shot by the police, not get beat by the police, hell not even get the attention of the police aside from a few traffic violations in my driving lifetime that were all deserved by me.

I don't see where the rocket science is behind not getting police attention

 

The millitarization of the police is a way cause resistance and spread fear (emotion)
All empires were created in the same way.
What the spread of fear (emotion) and intimidation does is lifting up emotions in an entire society, the result is a stronger hierarchy.
A part of society start to submit, while another part start to resist, in both cases the effect is the same, an increase in emotion (collective)

The only thing you can try is start talking with police officers (as calm as possible, because their emotional level is higher than normal too) and explain why history is repeating in the same way on and on.
It is the spread of fear (dark uniforms affect emotion as well) and the rise in emotion in the population, including the police officers.
Better not use the word cop, because that is an emotionally loaded word, that amplifies emotion.

To avert the next dark chapter in history people have to try to lower their emotional level (which you cannot feel), because when a majority of a society has reached the same high level of emotion, it start to become a collective emotion.
North Korea is the clearest example at this moment in the world were you can see what a collective emotion does to a population and society.

 

And things are so lovely in Scotland that you have to put your ignorance on display in the U.S.

 

Much like the rest of the intelligent people here in the U.S. I have found it nearly impossible to get into even a verbal altercation with the police much less one where they shoot you. If anyone is confused about how not to get shot by police, then you are probably of lesser intelligence and what you are really angry about is natural selection taking its natural course to slowly weed out the violent criminals from our society.

 

It all depends on the department. For instance, where I live which is in a major metropolitan area, we don't seem to have the problem you see with police other cities have.

Another thing you should know, by law, they have no duty to protect people.

There are good cops and bad cops because they are just people. The good cops outweigh the bad cops but don't make the news.

As far as gung ho, I have been stopped for drunk driving, speeding, no seatbelt and gotten warning tickets each time.

You can't judge all police by what happened in New Orleans which is also known for a lot of corruption.

Now, the militarization of police is fairly new but when government gives away MRAPS and other equipment, wouldn't you take one? The idea that police want to go home alive at the end of the day is not all that hard to understand but the idea that police are at war with the public again is fairly recent and Homeland Security is part of the problem as they support that view and instruct departments to be on the lookout for ordinary Americans. The other problem with the equipment the government gives away is like anything, if you have it, you will use it which exacerbates the division between police and the public. Using an MRAP and police decked out for war to deliver a subpoena is over the top but you see it happen on a regular basis in some cities.

Training is the key for police and with some of the things that have happened lately you can bet that new training will be on the way. This same issue came up in the 70's after a number of shootings of unarmed people and it calmed down until lately when police departments started to get used military equipment.

Also, something to consider, with the internet we may be seeing more than we did before.

It is also a good thing for citizens to know their rights as some cops don't even know them.

Two angry websites that I like to look at, keep in mind that this is a big country and this is not indicative of everywhere:

http://www.informationliberation.com/

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/

 

Heck, I am always nice and tell them that I was probably wrong and, so far, have only gotten warning tickets. In one case the cop replied defensively until he realized I was agreeing with him.

 

You really don't have a clue do you? Your own words convict you of both arrogance and ignorance. 1st you state that violence by the police should be a last resort and in my experience it almost always is. Then in your next sentence you claim the last resort is always illegitimate. So how many time does the perp get to shoot the cop before the cop shoots back? How many punches to the head does a cop have to take before he strikes back? I don't care how good you are at deescalation you are eventually going to run into some jackass trying to prove how tough he is and how little respect he has for any sort of authority, especially you. What do you want the cop to do? Runaway and let the thug beat up someone else?

Oh and for what it's woth the people running into the Big Easy with M-16s after Katrina were the National guard not the cops.

 

American law enforcement agencies and the quality of their officers are radically different from coast to coast. Harping on a handful of shootings or deaths (and yes, in raw number it is a handful) distorts things badly.

Myself, I've always had very good relations with law enforcement. Being respectful and polite works wonders.

Also, more than a few Americans black, white, and otherwise insist they have "stand up for their rights" in any kind of disagreement with police.

This is very foolhardy. Because every locality has policies and procedures to take when you have a grievance. Insisting on confronting a police officer on the street is the very definition of foolishness.

 

That's not the issue. The problem is not cops dealing appropriately with criminals, its cops killing and terrorizing innocent people.

There are roughly 50,000 no-knock raids annually, with that number mistakes are made and innocent people suffer. Cops go to the wrong address, terrorize the homeowners, and then when they realize their mistake they try to manufacture evidence to justify the raid.

http://www.policebrutality.info/201...use-threaten-children-and-kill-their-dog.html
Six children from Chicago are gonna remember this night as one of their most traumatizing experiences. The kids, aged 11 months to 13 years at the time, were rehearsing songs for the church choir with their grandmother Charlene Holly when eight armed officers burst through the door and started aiming guns at them, yelling “get on the ground!”. The cops hauled the family dog into the laundry room and strangled it to death. Only problem was they were at the wrong address.

Or here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxM-daXd964
When the family finally let the cops in, the cops threw everyone on the floor, handcuffed them, threatened them, pushed them around, and tried to provoke them into resisting. Its all on the video.

And here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html
Jose Guerena, former Marine, law abiding citizen, no criminal record, was killed when cops smashed into his home in a no-knock raid, Guerena woke up, grabbed a rifle and was shot by cops who refused for an hour to allow medical personnel treat the unconscious Guerena who bled out and died. Cops initially claimed Guerena shot first, a lie, when confronted with he fact Guerena's rifles safety was on they admitted the cops shot first. To try to hide their crime and mistake, 4 days after the murder cops sealed the warrants to prevent public access.

There are many more cases, search "cops raid wrong address"

And cops get away with it, there is no accountability. In the Guerena case, the surviving wife and child sued and won $3.4Million but the cops did not have to admit wrongdoing and no cop was punished (just the taxpayers).

No, Katrina was very well documented. It was National Guard and cops from nearby parishes, Louisiana state cops, out of state cops including Michigan and New Mexico.

Some Michigan cops filed complaints about abuses by Baton Rouge cops in New Orleans after Katrina.

 

Let's be clear. A dead citizen is an enormous tragedy. Its a grievous situation. It can only be accepted in the most special and rare circumstances. There are no ifs or buts. A cop is the person paid to protect lives. So what you ask is a cop to do? I'll tell you - offer coffee and cigarettes. Chewing gum and candy. Talk it out. Calm the people you love. Your fellow Americans down. Just as yourself would seek to do as I know you have deep love and respect for your fellow Americans on the street. Is that not so?

As for Katrina you are quite wrong. When the army moved in they found blue uniformed cops rising trucks pointing their weapons down the streets and had to tell them to lower them. That's the difference between real warriors and police forces.

 

I love them. They need more funding and training. These struggles for their lives should have never happened. All of those useless thugs that have been made martyrs by the press should have been gunned down before they even THOUGHT about attacking an officer of the law.

 

When have you been here to study them? What makes you an expert on the US? Worry about your own bobbies. I don't have a problem with the Police. If something happens, I want them there.

 

I had to laugh. There was a fire at my house and the police sent an investigator to ask me questions. He was a short black guy with a wonderful scowl that made me feel guilty just looking at him.

 

Yes I have been to the us a few times. And I love Americans. Perhaps more than you.

I find it troubling that Americans now have police forces dressed and acting like soldiers. Even while crime has gone down. I wish to know how you feel about that.

If that bothers you that's unfortunate. But nothing more.

 

It is not a great thing for relations and is discussed here quite frequently. A book by Radley Balko on the militarization on police by an acquaintance. Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces

 

They're not useless thugs. They are troubled young men. And given that you love all cops and all mankind as all true americans do - deep in your heart you love them too. So stop pretending otherwise.

 

When you are reaching for the officer's firearm to kill him we have a word for that here in the states.

That thug was a coward and it is called suicide by cop.

 

From my personal experience: at different times I've had a Toyota Camry and a Holden Commodore. You probably won't recognize the second car, but it's very popular in Australia.

Anyway, I have gone 2 years with my Camry without being pulled over a single time. With the Commodore I was routinely pulled over by law enforcement for no reason other than troublemakers often have such models. A lot of the time they just asked me if I'm doing anything wrong, or if I know what speed I was doing.

Part of the problem is that cops don't require any sort of cause to pull you over in Aus. They set up checkpoints and the such, and cars patrol, pulling you over and analyzing your breath an saliva for alcohol and drugs.

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Anyway - cops are not impartial. This is obvious. The way to avoid the attention of cops is not so much to not do anything illegal, but to avoid looking like you might.

 

I have supported the officers in Fergusson, and NYPD in both publicized cases.... howerver, don't mistake that for me "trusting cops" I will never TRUST cops when dealing with any personal conflicts I may have in the future or traffic stops.


I have an approach to my Christianity.... you make your own choices and I'll let God sort it all out on judgement day....

Cops do this. Let the courts sort it out.

They are in a profession that they will simply let yourself get talked into an arrest.

Well, I'm in an occupation that I can lose while letting the courts sort it all out, so I am just going to keep my mouth shut.


Traffic stops are the worst....

"do you know why I pulled you over?" yes, speeding (now it's hard to fight it later if you are recorded admitting to it)
"where you coming from?" just a mile back at my g/f's house just hanging out (well, little do you know, there was just a burglary reported over there and they reported items stolen just like what you have in your back seat).... or, it's a known drug area and anyone in that area is there for drugs at this time of night)

"where are you going?" I'm going home over in xxx (which could be a spot where more drugs happend)


"can I search your car?" sure, I have nothing to hide (but those CD's in the back of your car match the items burglared and good luck proving you bought them) or that medicine you have in a ziplock because your bottle broke is illegal and he can't tell if it's an aspirin or extasy)

or like what happened to me, a coworker (wendy's, not teaching at this point yet) I took home one time, lost his stash in my car. I found it the next day, but had I been pulled over, and though "I have nothing to hide".... I'm arrested for drugs.


I don't get pulled over very often... usually once every 8 years or so.... and I've never recieved a ticket or done anything that could get me arrested.... but from now on, whenever I'm pulled over, I will simply follow the simple steps


1 have license registration and insurance ready.
2. hands on steering wheel
3. stay in car
4. I won't answer any "yes/no" questions
5. All I will say is "am I free to go yet?" no matter what the question

I may get the speeding ticket, but I can't get fired over a speeding violation. I can get fired for a doosh bag I got roped into taking home at some point lost his stash in my car that I wasn't aware of.

 

Are you black and do you live in a black area? Are you lower middle class or below? If you are any of those things have any relatives or friends had problems? We're not talking about everyone being constantly harassed, as even overtly oppressive governments generally leave most people alone. The question is whether you feel constantly afraid. Also, remember that as to being killed, it only takes once.

 

I am not black but have lived as lower class in mostly black neighborhoods. The problem is not because they are black but because that is where the majority of crime is. Blocks from my old house a 20s something white guy on his daily walk was shot dead by a black 16 year old that wanted to rob him. That this happens a lot more in black culture is a problem in proportion to the rest of society. Police will pay more attention where the crime is the greatest.

 

your take is pitiful and not fact based. the cops in NOLA do not have access to military weapons. hang your head and walk away till you get some facts.

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/hundreds_of_nj_police_firefigh.html


What we need is mandatory drug screening for LEOs. Thousands of them are hooked on anabolic steroids in the US.

 

No duty to protect? Every cop car I've ever seen says "to serve and protect" right on it.