Amnesty: "It is astonishing that in the 21st century the Saudi Arabian authorities c

litwin · Oct 27, 2013

Thehumankind said: ↑

A gesture of over-protectionism, I guess not,
it does not need pure muscle to drive a car nowadays, car manufacturers already put in place hydraulic steering,
and I think they do have driver licensure guidelines to fulfill.
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oh No, just gender apartheid

Saudi Arabia's practices with regard to women have been referred to consistently as gender apartheid.[48][49] Acts of gender apartheid purportedly manifest in many different forms, such as the ban on women from physical education in school and from watching sporting events at stadiums.[50] Women are also prohibited from driving and require male permission in order to travel.[51] More recently, a new technology system has been introduced that alerts male guardians by text when their female dependent has left the country.[52] In general, women in Saudi Arabia possess the same legal rights as minors and cannot make major decisions, e.g. in education, work, and healthcare, without the consent of a male relative.[52]
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JEDDAH, Saudi Arabia (WOMENSENEWS)--Jeddah, I was told, is the more liberal place in the kingdom, a little like the San Francisco of this nation. Said to be more tolerant than elsewhere because it is, and has been for 1,400 years, the entry point for the millions of travelers each year in their annual pilgrimage to Mecca, the holiest place in Islam.

Yet, as I studied my guidebook in anticipation of my first journey here, I duly noted the warning that Saudi Arabia was perhaps the most difficult place on the globe for women to travel alone and noted the guide made no mention of any exceptions.

Women on Saudi soil must have a husband or male relative as an escort. We are not allowed to drive. When sight-seeing we must wear a full-length black gown known as an abaya. During Saudi Arabia's first elections, held the week before my arrival, women were not permitted to vote or run for office.

Yet, Saudi women have the right to own property, transact business, go to school and be supported by their husbands, while maintaining their separate bank accounts.

I was on my way to the Jeddah Economic Forum, to be held from Feb. 19 to Feb. 22, as part of the 32-member delegation organized by the Council on Foreign Relations, a nonprofit with offices in Washington, D.C. and New York.

The official agenda was sustainable development: the need for Saudi Arabia to create jobs for its unemployed in industries that do not rely on diminishing resources like oil.

As I prepared to leave, however, a big item on my own agenda was my safety. First off, I was a Westerner in the post-9/11 world traveling to the nation that spawned Osama bin Laden and his followers and which, in December, saw a shoot-out at the U.S. consulate in Jeddah.

I was also as a single woman accustomed to the freedom of New York City, where I can move about unfettered by gender restrictions, even feeling safe on the city's subway late at night. In Saudi Arabia I would lose all that and I didn't know how my internal navigation would cope.

Taking the Jeddah airport bus from the plane to the terminal, I observed that some women did not have veils or even scarves, and I decided to remain bareheaded. By the time we reached the baggage claim area, however, my resolved faded as I could no longer see another woman without a head scarf. I reached into my bag and put mine on.

To my surprise, an immigration official met me and waved me through without checking my bag. A Budget Rent A Car employee, serving as my government-required male escort, met me on the other side of customs and drove me to the hotel....
At breakfast, I learned that the expansive hotel dining area was reserved for men. Women were relegated to the smaller "family area," that was blocked from public view.

That was when I noticed that all the hotel employees I had seen so far--from the greeters, bellstaff, security guards, registration clerks, tenders of the breakfast buffet--were male, a fact that remained true throughout my stay. Not a single female employee.

After breakfast, I decided to "test the waters" on swimming. The concierge informed me about the shuttles to the "private beach" a half-hour's drive away. They left at 9 a.m. and noon and brought guests back at 3 and at 5. No possibility of returning at noon or going at 3; that I would have to handle at my own expense.

I set out at 9 and, at the beach, I quickly shed my black Hilton-supplied abaya, thinking how its color absorbs the heat, while the white robes that most men wear reflects it.
Behind the Barricades

About 100 yards wide, the beach was populated mostly by Western couples, the women wearing two-piece suits and children with sand-buckets and brightly colored hats. With its solid-steel rusted entrance gate and shabby-looking lounge chairs, the beach was like any facility designed for the exclusive use of those with lesser status. The faded, stained condition of it all caused spiffy visions of the Hilton pool to dance resentfully in my head.

On my one day of sightseeing I took in the country's famous wealth--glittering shopping malls and immense, gated mansions--from the backseat of a Budget rental car.

I also saw slums, as well as female beggars, covered in their veils and black abayas, occasionally carrying a tiny infant wrapped in a colorful scarf.

As we passed Jeddah's one public square our guide pointed out the site where the public beheadings take place on Fridays. A female surgeon, a Jeddah resident originally from Bahrain, seated next to me, complained bitterly about the religious police who carry sticks to chastise women in public who they deem as not properly covered by their abayas and veils, much like the Taliban in Afghanistan.

I spent my last evening sitting with a group of people in the family section of an outdoor cafe. At one point, a member of our party--a young man from Jeddah--recounted the tale of a man from Saudi Arabia who had a sex change operation in the United States and became a woman.

After her father died, her family argued that she was entitled to only a half-share of the estate because he was now a she. After a lawsuit, the Saudi courts declared that the person was always a he--regardless of surgery--and therefore entitled to a full share.

I said nothing, stunned by the thought of daughters who receive only half of what sons inherit and a legal system unwilling to reflect the changing realities.
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SAUER · Nov 2, 2013

Lee S said: ↑

I would prefer to live in a society with some elements of Sharia justice. It is a matter of perspective. An Islamic society is infinitely more fair and you have a whole lot more freedom, from the Saudi perspective. In America, the righteous lock themselves in their homes at night so that criminals can run free. Many Islamic neighborhoods do not have a single lock on a single door. Why should they? There just isn't any crime. Are there entire neighborhoods or cities in western societies where it is not safe for women to be in for fear of being mugged or worse?

Societies are not like a buffet line where you can pick and choose what you want. It is a total and integrated package. You may be offended by the Arabian justice system, but if you lived in that culture you would probably learn to appreciate a crime free society with virtually no homelessness, virtually no addiction, and virtually no hunger. Their justice system is only a positive if you are a law abiding citizen. If you have criminal tendencies, then you may wish to relocate.

The only trouble I had with Arabian police is when I dropped and lost my wallet near a busy intersection in Abu Dhabi. I thought I would never see it again, but my Arab friends told me to retrace my steps and I would find it. It took them two days to convince me, and when I retraced my steps I found my wallet on a sidewalk two days later. When I picked it up, a police man criticized me for leaving it on the ground as a temptation for the weak willed for two whole days. Apparently, it caused worry in the neighborhood that if someone picked it up, the owner would not find it. Nobody even considered stealing it. That was unthinkable.

If you live in an Islamic country, you are completely aware of what many see as severe abuses against humanity. However, if you open your mind to it, you will realize that it works for that culture. Most people I know who have actually lived in an Islamic country realize that the trade-off are worth it.

I doubt that most of you will ever understand this. I didn't believe it was possible until I lived there. I would just ask that you all would have the intellectual honesty to admit that there is a possibility that you may be missing part of the equation.
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You are right. Lets take the intellectual honestly and admit that there is a low crime rate and it is a good achievement. But Sharia justice is not a panacea (the places like Somalia is a good example). + There are many other good and safe places with lowest crime rates like Cyprus, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Japan etc which aint practice Sharia justice.

And again despite the low crime rate in this region I do think that in this case > http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/meast/saudi-arabia-beheading/
the punishment (beheading) doesnt correspond to the character and degree of the social danger of the offence, the circumstances of its commission, and the personality of the guilty party.

Margot2 · Nov 2, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

You are right. Let’s take the intellectual honestly and admit that there is a low crime rate and it is a good achievement. But Sharia justice is not a panacea (the places like Somalia is a good example). + There are many other good and safe places with lowest crime rates like Cyprus, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Japan etc which ain’t practice Sharia justice.

And again – despite the low crime rate in this region I do think that in this case > http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/meast/saudi-arabia-beheading/
the punishment (beheading) doesn’t correspond to the character and degree of the social danger of the offence, the circumstances of its commission, and the personality of the guilty party.
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Are you living in Saudi Arabia?

Lee S · Nov 2, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

Are you living in Saudi Arabia?
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This is an excellent point and perhaps the only salient point. Yes, they have beheadings and they are barbaric, but is it any more barbaric than the slaughter that occurs every Friday night in Chicago? And it isn't like everyone in the entire country doesn't know that if you commit a crime, you will be found, convicted and punished. Not maybe, but it will be a 100% surety. You won't have people not reporting a crime or turning the other way. You will not have intimidated witnesses. And if you have a beheading every third year or so, you won't have a dozen young men gunning each other down every week. So where is the barbarism?

Margot2 · Nov 2, 2013

Lee S said: ↑

This is an excellent point and perhaps the only salient point. Yes, they have beheadings and they are barbaric, but is it any more barbaric than the slaughter that occurs every Friday night in Chicago? And it isn't like everyone in the entire country doesn't know that if you commit a crime, you will be found, convicted and punished. Not maybe, but it will be a 100% surety. You won't have people not reporting a crime or turning the other way. You will not have intimidated witnesses. And if you have a beheading every third year or so, you won't have a dozen young men gunning each other down every week. So where is the barbarism?
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Well ..hanging, the electric chair and lethal injection is just as deadly.

litwin · Nov 2, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

Are you living in Saudi Arabia?
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have you ever been in Gulag,Auschwitz or Trasciniec´?

Margot2 · Nov 2, 2013

litwin said: ↑

have you ever been in Gulag,Auschwitz or Trasciniec´?
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Nope.. but I have seen Dachau.
Sauer doesn't know anymore about KSA than you do.

litwin · Nov 2, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

Well ..hanging, the electric chair and lethal injection is just as deadly.
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no one here rejects a fact that USA and KSA are 2 very similar countries, >>>MOD EDIT: INSULT<<<<

litwin · Nov 2, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

Nope.. but I have seen Dachau.
Sauer doesn't know anymore about KSA than you do.
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he does not need to be there , media picture is very accurate, then Russians have had the wahhabi - "autonomous" "states"in Dagestan and in Chechnya ( short period of time) so he know about your customs, mentality , laws, etc. quite well

what have you lorn form your Dachau visit?

litwin · Nov 2, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

You are sick.. I have NEVER, ever seen any execution.
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Kuwaiti Officials Watch Public Executions While Enjoying Refreshments - Viewer Discretion Advised
[video=youtube;6eCqeVxYr2o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eCqeVxYr2o[/video]

SAUER · Nov 3, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

Are you living in Saudi Arabia?
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No.

Margot2 said: ↑

Well ..hanging, the electric chair and lethal injection is just as deadly.
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Feel the difference. >
A woman was beheaded in Saudi Arabia for practicing witchcraft and sorcery
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/meast/saudi-arabia-beheading/
Brandon Wayne Hedrick (February 23, 1979 – July 20, 2006) was a convicted murderer who was executed by electric chair by the U.S. state of Virginia. He was convicted of the 1997 murder of 23 year-old Lisa Crider, who was kidnapped, robbed, raped, and shot in the face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Hedrick

Margot2 · Nov 3, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

No.

Feel the difference. >
A woman was beheaded in Saudi Arabia for practicing witchcraft and sorcery
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/world/meast/saudi-arabia-beheading/
Brandon Wayne Hedrick (February 23, 1979 – July 20, 2006) was a convicted murderer who was executed by electric chair by the U.S. state of Virginia. He was convicted of the 1997 murder of 23 year-old Lisa Crider, who was kidnapped, robbed, raped, and shot in the face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Hedrick
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The woman was convicted of swindling.. which is against the law in Arabia.. She was taking large amounts of money from sick people and "curing" them with magic.

SAUER · Nov 3, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

The woman was convicted of swindling.. which is against the law in Arabia.. She was taking large amounts of money from sick people and "curing" them with magic.
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let's start again

SAUER said: ↑

Sorry, and what about this question? >
Margot imagine that you practiced - ‘Sorcery which considered swindling.. and prevents people from getting proper medical care’ in KSA and local law enforcement got you. You would have preferred that Saudis punished you according to their laws or any other more soft punishment?

Click to expand...

Margot2 · Nov 3, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

let's start again
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You have to be dumb as a post to get into trouble in KSA.. So don't break the law..

SAUER · Nov 3, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

You have to be dumb as a post to get into trouble in KSA.. So don't break the law..
Click to expand...

Could you pls give a clear answer?>
Margot imagine that you practiced - Sorcery which considered swindling.. and prevents people from getting proper medical care in KSA and local law enforcement got you. You would have preferred that Saudis punished you according to their laws or any other more soft punishment?

Margot2 · Nov 3, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

Could you pls give a clear answer?>
Margot imagine that you practiced - ‘Sorcery which considered swindling.. and prevents people from getting proper medical care’ in KSA and local law enforcement got you. You would have preferred that Saudis punished you according to their laws or any other more soft punishment?
Click to expand...

I would never swindle anyone.. so its a pointless exercise.

SAUER · Nov 3, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

I would never swindle anyone.. so its a pointless exercise.
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SAUER said: ↑

That's why I said Margot imagine that you practiced - ‘Sorcery which considered swindling.. and prevents people from getting proper medical care’ in KSA and local law enforcement got you. You would have preferred that Saudis punished you according to their laws or any other more soft punishment?
Click to expand...

litwin · Nov 3, 2013

Margot2 said: ↑

The woman was convicted of swindling.. which is against the law in Arabia.. She was taking large amounts of money from sick people and "curing" them with magic.
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so what , its a typical example of Fraud, in many countries she ´d get away(no jail term) with this if its a first time . but not in KSA, you religious pricks use 1 500 years old "criminal code"

truth and justice · Nov 3, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

Could you pls give a clear answer?>
Margot imagine that you practiced - ‘Sorcery which considered swindling.. and prevents people from getting proper medical care’ in KSA and local law enforcement got you. You would have preferred that Saudis punished you according to their laws or any other more soft punishment?
Click to expand...

Your scenario does not make sense. Are you stating that the law breaker chooses which punishment system she prefers to have carried out on her?

Aside, if their law is that sorcery is a capital offence, then that is the country's choice.

litwin · Nov 3, 2013

truth and justice said: ↑

Your scenario does not make sense. Are you stating that the law breaker chooses which punishment system she prefers to have carried out on her?

Aside, if their law is that sorcery is a capital offence, then that is the country's choice.
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not really is human(humanistic) right issue as well

Face. Your · Nov 3, 2013

truth and justice said: ↑

Your scenario does not make sense. Are you stating that the law breaker chooses which punishment system she prefers to have carried out on her?

Aside, if their law is that sorcery is a capital offence, then that is the country's choice.
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Really? When was the king elected by the people of that country? Got to love the overt support for the apartheid state of Saudi Arabia though.

SAUER · Nov 3, 2013

truth and justice said: ↑

Your scenario does not make sense. Are you stating that the law breaker chooses which punishment system she prefers to have carried out on her?

Aside, if their law is that sorcery is a capital offence, then that is the country's choice.
Click to expand...

Sure, I really wonder why some people still worry about so-called Nuremberg race laws and Cambodian justice during Pol Pots reign. It was just their choice. Don't let that worry you.

litwin · Nov 4, 2013

Unfulfilled promises sound like "Margot" ...

Saudi Arabia: Unfulfilled promises: Amnesty International submission to the UN Universal Periodic Review
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In this submission, Amnesty International notes that Saudi Arabia appears to have implemented none of the central recommendations made in its previous UPR, including to ratify key human rights treaties. With regard to the human rights situation on the ground, violations have continued and in some cases worsened. Amnesty International raises concerns with regard to some of the most prominent violations including arbitrary detention, unfair trials and travel bans; the death penalty; torture and ill-treatment; and discrimination against women, migrant workers and minorities
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DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN
There have been a few limited developments in women
s rights over the past two
years. In 2011, the King announced that women would
have the right to vote and to
stand in the 2015 municipal elections, the Kingdom
s only public poll. In 2012,
new public and private posts were promised to women
and, for the first time, two
Saudi Arabian women were permitted to participate i
n the Olympic Games with the
presence of male guardians. In early 2013, 30 women
were assigned seats in the
Shura Council, and in April 2013 a government campa
ign to raise awareness of
Saudi Arabia: Submission to the UN Universal Period
Review
17th Session of the UPR Working Group, October No
vember 2013
Index: MDE 23/018/2013 Amnesty International, May
2013
12
domestic violence was launched.
However, women continue to face severe discriminati
on in law and practice and are
inadequately protected against domestic and other g
ender-based violence.
Discriminatory rules relating to marriage and divor
ce, which are not codified, cause
some women to be trapped in violent and abusive rel
ationships. The guardianship
system that prevails in Saudi Arabia means women ar
e required to obtain the
permission of a male guardian before getting marrie
d, travelling, undergoing certain
surgical interventions, undertaking paid employment
or enrolling in higher
education. Partly as a result of this and partly be
cause of the limited number of
professions deemed socially suitable for women, man
y find it difficult to obtain
work, despite an increase in the number of women re
ceiving higher education.
Saudi Arabian women with foreign spouses, unlike th
eir male counterparts, cannot
pass on their nationality to their children.
Women also continue to be prohibited from driving.
When an online campaign
called Women2Drive encouraged women who hold inte
rnational driving licences
to start driving on Saudi Arabian roads from 17 Jun
e 2011 onwards,
31
scores of
women took to the roads and some were arrested. Mos
t were released without
charge after pledging not to drive again, but sever
al were charged.
Manal al-Sharif, a computer security consultant, wa
s arrested on 22 May 2011, the
day after police had stopped her while she was driv
ing, accompanied by her brother,
in the city of al-Khobar. She had driven previously
as part of the campaign
Women2Drive, and she had uploaded a video on Your
Tube of herself driving on
on 19 May in order to urge other women in Saudi Ara
bia with international driving
licences to drive. She was released 10 days later a
fter she signed a pledge that she
would not drive again.
On 27 September 2011, Shaimaa Jastaniyah was senten
ced to 10 lashes in Jeddah
for driving a car. The sentence was later overturne
d in April 2012.
32
Such discrimination in law and practice, as well as
the absence of a law
criminalizing domestic violence, fosters an environ
ment in which domestic violence
is rife.
ABUSES AGAINST MIGRANT WORKERS
Migrant workers, who comprise around a third of the
population, are inadequately
protected by labour laws and are vulnerable to expl
oitation and abuse by their
employers. Domestic workers are not covered by the
labour law and as such receive
no protection. Women domestic workers are also at p
articular risk of sexual violence
and other abuses. The sponsorship system governing
employment of foreign
nationals exposes them to exploitation and abuse by
private and government
employers and allows them little or no redress. Typ
ical abuses include long working
hours, non-payment of salaries, refusal of permissi
on to return home after
completing contracts, refusal to transfer sponsorsh
ip and withholding of passports.
Domestic workers who flee their employers can be ar
rested and charged with
absconding.
Some migrant workers experience physical abuse by t
heir employers, but face
enormous challenges in seeking legal remedies. Migr
ant workers who are able to
take their employers to court find themselves embro
iled in court cases that can last
for years and may not provide a positive outcome.
Saudi Arabia: Submission to the UN Universal Period
Review
17th Session of the UPR Working Group, October No
vember 2013
Index: MDE 23/018/2013 Amnesty International, May
2013
13
In 2011, L P Ariyawathie, a Sri Lankan employed as
a domestic worker, was found
to have 24 nails and a needle driven into her hands
, leg and forehead when she
returned to Sri Lanka. She said that the injuries h
ad been inflicted by her employer
when she complained about her heavy workload. It is
unclear whether the Saudi
Arabian authorities investigated the matter.
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http://amnesty.org/en/library/asset...80f-4469-b5ae-18845b725cfc/mde230182013en.pdf

SAUER · Nov 11, 2013

litwin said: ↑

Amnesty: "It is astonishing that in the 21st century the Saudi Arabian authorities continue to deny women the right to legally drive a car, do you agree with Amnesty?and why and how can Saudi "men" want to live in the bronze age?
Rights watchdog Amnesty International has urged the Saudi authorities to respect the right of women to drive. "It is astonishing that in the 21st century the Saudi Arabian authorities continue to deny women the right to legally drive a car," Philip Luther, Amnesty Internationals Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme, said.
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Amnesty International got checkmate
[video=youtube;3SXUVERUfVE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXUVERUfVE[/video]
[video=youtube;ggz1jyCa9DA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggz1jyCa9DA[/video]

litwin · Nov 15, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

Amnesty International got checkmate
[video=youtube;3SXUVERUfVE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXUVERUfVE[/video]
[video=youtube;ggz1jyCa9DA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggz1jyCa9DA[/video]
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the winners of eurovision 2014?

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