An Ironic Quote from C.S. Lewis

I recently noticed that a poster here has the following C.S. Lewis quote in his/her signature.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
--C. S. Lewis, God in the Dock, p. 292.

It's a great quote from a great writer, although it seems rather strange coming from C.S. Lewis. I'd seen this quote before, but it got me thinking....

As I'm sure a lot of you know, Lewis was a very influential Christian writer. He's most famous for his Narnia series.

While the quote above is in reference to human authority, it seems oddly appropriate to use in reference to religion itself.

If you think about it, God is an "ominpotent moral busybody." The concept behind an all-powerful being that knows your every move and thought and who eventually will judge you for these things does sound rather horrifying in an oppressive sense.

When looking at how institutions like the Catholic Church have a history of acting much like an "omnipotent moral busybody" and how many current Islamist governments do the same, it begins to paint a picture that I'm not sure Lewis would have liked to elaborate on.

My questions for this thread are: What do you think of Lewis's sentiments in the quote above when applied to God or religion in general? Is God essentially an omnipotent moral busybody?

 

He was quite often sozzled (and I have seen him so). Perhaps he wrote this when in his cups? I fully agree about the theological implications.

 

lol... perhaps... You saw him in person at some point?

 

As a student, late at night and in much the same state, as he walked into walls!

 

lol... sounds entertaining. Although I didn't share his beliefs, I would have liked to have met him and maybe had a religious conversation with him.

 

I was too purist at the time, though we did listen to him at our English Society. Not impressed: very Oxford and know-it-all. His autobiography is quite impressive, though, and helps to explain his posturing.

 

Sure He is, if you think about it like the devil thinks about it.

 

God isn't an omnipotent moral busybody. In fact, God pretty much leaves us alone. Also, at least in this and the last century, I don't know of any place where Christianity has ruled the world. Finally, C.S. Lewis was not a Christian of the ilk of modern evangelicals. The worldview is much different.

I do agree that modern evangelicals too often are the busybodies of which you speak. The quote is directed against them, as well as the current branch of progressive politicians who are slowly turning us into a police state for our own good.

 

It just strikes me as odd how a lot of conservatives view government as invasive while still believing happily in an all-powerful being that apparently is going to judge whether you suffer eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation or salvation by the end of your life.

That sounds far more oppressive and paternalistic than any government could be.

At least human institutions spare you after you're dead. This God being wants to bother you even after you've died.

 

Fair enough. It sounds like Lewis had a somewhat Libertarian slant.

 

That certainly computes if, like most liberals, you don't understand that in a constitutional republic, the government is the servant of the People and not the other way around.

 

If this Christian God does exist, then yea he is most definitely a moral busybody.

Even though he minds his own business with us during life, he is still constantly judging our every action to see if we deserve salvation or not, right?

Seems awfully annoying to me. Mind your own (*)(*)(*)(*) business and let me live my life how I want.

No one, not even some omnipotent, all-powerful God, has the right to place judgement on how anybody else lives their own life. As long as their actions don't harm the lives of others, of course.

 

Modern Christianity has no temporal power. The Church cannot use the law to enforce its edicts. All it can use is moral persuasion.

What C.S. Lewis is talking about is Communism, and also leftist forms of government that heavily regulate because they feel that the people are too stupid to take care of themselves.

For example, Michelle Obama wants to use government power to decide what we get to eat. In San Francisco, they almost outlawed the Happy Meal.

 

God gives us free will and even lets us snub our noses at him. Conversely, mankind wishes to impose his will upon us to do his bidding.

If God be a God of justcie, then when we sin against others then a penalty must be imposed, otherwise where does that leave justice? Conversly, mankind often uses the legal system as a sword to subdue their adversaries even when are you sinning against them. All that is needed to do so is political or economic might, (Cough, OJ and MIchael Jackson).

 

God gives you free will to act, and the future consequences are yours. The tyrant doesn't, he requires or prohibits actions, and disobediance is accompanied by whatever punishment the tyrant deems fit. The do-gooders in power make an awful mess.

 

Exactly. When moral behavior is enforced by law, there is no real morality because there is no option to be immoral.

Example, Saudi Arabia, who have "morality police" that make sure women are veiled at all times in public.

 

I heard once that C.S. Lewis used to be atheist or agnostic and that J.R.R. Tolkein, his good friend, converted him to Christianity. However Tolkein was a Catholic and Lewis converted to Protestantism and then often criticized Tolekin's beliefs.

So this quote may have been before Lewis was a Christian.

EDIT: Ah, here it is.

"He was then sent to the health-resort town of Malvern, Worcestershire, where he attended the preparatory school Cherbourg House, which Lewis calls "Chartres" in his autobiography. It was during this time that Lewis abandoned his childhood Christian faith and became an atheist, becoming interested in mythology and the occult."

"After his conversion to theism in 1929, Lewis converted to Christianity in 1931, following a long discussion and late-night walk with his close friends Tolkien and Hugo Dyson. He records making a specific commitment to Christian belief while on his way to the zoo with his brother. He became a member of the Church of England – somewhat to the disappointment of Tolkien, who had hoped that he would convert to Roman Catholicism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._S._Lewis

 

Right. C.S. Lewis only went part of the way. The Church of England was a safe choice. It would have taken a lot more guts to go all the way and convert to Catholicism.

 

Are you implying that Catholicism is somehow better than Protestantism?

 

The religious implications depend on whether one conceives of a god who is immanent in the lives of people or one who is transcendant in time and space.

 

I consider Protestantism to be a way station between Catholicism and total lack of belief. Many Protestant ministers don't even believe in God, and admit to it.

 

You have evidence of this?

 

How many Popes have even believed in Jesus?

 

The rules are simple. Follow them, and you're ok.

Not really, He just allows you to live with your choices. No bother, just categorization based on what you wanted, based on your actions/choices in life.

 

Most did. There was a time in the Renaissance when several did not (the Borgias come to mind), but I have no doubt that the vast majority have been holy men.