An Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income financed by Lincoln Greenback Policy???

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by DennisTate, Jan 28, 2024.

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Should Americans be given an Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income?

  1. No

    4 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Perhaps.... I will research this further?????

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Should American and Canadian citizens and legal residents receive an Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income of $777 per person...... from cradle to grave......?

    Then.... would Americans and Canadians purchase healthier food for themselves and choose the best Health Care Providers?

    Would... many parents choose to educate their own children and get their kids out of the seriously messed up public schools?

    Would real estate prices soon surge in value if this were done?

    Would it be possible to use this method to PAY OFF THE NATIONAL DEBTS OF BOTH CANADA AND THE USA..... because a good case can be presented that our national debts are deliberately exaggerated by less than honest elected officials in both Washington, D. C. as well as in Ottawa?


    Did you know that President Abraham Lincoln saved American taxpayers FOUR BILLION DOLLARS IN INTEREST DUE TO HIS CREATIVE METHOD OF FINANCING THE CIVIL WAR?


    http://www.cidpusa.org/lincoln_JFK.htm


    Economist Milton Friedman suggested that this type of income supplement should be unconditional and go to both wealthy and poor alike.... so that the massive cost of a bureaucracy can be ELIMINATED!!!!

    He felt that this was the way to move America and Canada away from a Welfare State into true economic freedom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2024
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To my thinking...
    the following graphs indicate that Canada's Prime Minister Pierre E. Trudeau was probably pressured into making what could be argued was the most colossal error that a sitting Canadian P. M. has made in the past fifty years....... in order to disguise what was happening to the national debts of both Canada and the USA.

    If the rather brilliant Bank of Policy that was used from 1938 to 1974 had NOT been sabotaged by P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau.... then.....
    we would have seen the national debt of the USA spiral out of control.... where several hundred miles north in Canada.... that national debt of Canada would barely be growing if Trudeau Sr. had not thrown Canadians under the bus in terms of economics?????

    Ms. Betty Krawczyk did a great job of explaining all of this:

    https://bettysearlyedition.blogspot.com/2015/07/how-pierre-trudeau-turned-us-into-debt.html





    ....

    https://www.michaeljournal.org/articles/social-credit/item/the-public-debt-problem?/plenty34.htm





    [​IMG]

    My guess is that he was pressured into doing this so that the same thing could be
    arranged in the USA:


    [​IMG]

    Many wealthy people believe that the only way to keep the lower class working
    hard is to keep them head over heels in debt and kind of hungry. Lower class people choosing to have an abortion is a positive thing in the minds of a lot of people who consider themselves to be the ELITE!

    https://www.michaeljournal.org/articles/social-credit/item/the-public-debt-problem?/plenty34.htm
    The Public-Debt Problem




    Here is how I explained this back in 2006 when I campaigned for the office of M. L. A. as an independent:

    From 1940 to 1974 the Government of Canada put roughly half of the total money supply into the economy through loans issued through the federally owned Bank of Canada. Provincial and municipal governments could borrow the money to build roads, schools, hospitals and sewage treatment facilities at zero or one percent interest. In 1974 we changed our system and since that time a higher and higher percentage of all government debt is financed through loans issued through privately owned banks. At this time it is ninety eight percent. This policy may be great for our banking sector but it was estimated that in the one year of 1995 alone our federal government could have saved roughly SIXTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS in interest payments if we had gone back to creating half the total money supply through these low interest rate loans issued through the bank that is OWNED BY ALL CANADIANS.

    Considering that our deficit was approximately thirty billion dollars for that year, simply by changing back to an already proven monetary and banking system, we could theoretically have had a FEDERAL BUDGET SURPLUS OF THIRTY FIVE BILLION DOLLARS in 1995.


    The massive cutbacks in the Canadian military, in health care, highway construction, social programs and education were profoundly affected by these accounting practices?

    So what can you and I do about this problem?

    My 2006, 2008, 2016 and 2004 campaign writings as ART.
     
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  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Giving people more money just makes all the money worth less resources. Property values would increase, and so would the cost that property, like housing costs. The only way to increase access to resources is to increase productivity ...or decrease population I guess.
     
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do agree with you that property values will certainly increase......

    that part of your answer is correct!



    But what is the alternative.....
    am I an idiot to think that Biden and Trudeau and whoever is passing them a script to read for them seem to want a Bear Market.... another 1929?



    Do Biden's advisors and Trudeau's advisors seem to want to crash the markets?




    ?
    Do Biden's advisors want to create an economic crisis?

    1. No
      8 vote(s)
      38.1%
    2. *
      Yes
      11 vote(s)
      52.4%

    3. I certainly hope not????
      2 vote(s)
      9.5%

    4. I hope so... because I know how to invest no matter which way this goes!
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    Change Your Vote

    I believe that there is a valid analogy between the economy and the human body...... MONEY in the economy.... acts like BLOOD.... and if the arteries do not have enough money.......... the the economy like a body.... will be extremely sick and appear nearly dead.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...is-a-good-thing.499686/page-9#post-1067298520



     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2024
  5. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ The State of Alaska pays residents a dividend based on oil revenue . ( Permanent Fund ) The USA could pay residents the same way based on back-room deals between Capitola Hill and special interest groups, lobbying donations, sale of Hunter Biden’s artwork, a percentage of all bribes made to Congress, etc...
    Andrew Yang could work out the details for his next presidential campaign.
    190909-andrew-yang-gang-cs-1016a.jpg
    " Make Crime Pay Again" Vote Yang !
    { BEFORE it's too late }
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2024
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  6. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered Donor

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    Free money??
    Oh heck yes!
    GIMMEE!!

    Here's the thing. America has always been the shining light of opportunity for the world. In America one can be as rich and successful as they want, no matter their heritage, their sex, or their economic status when born.
    Work hard, be thrifty, and be all you can be.

    Now, detractors love to shout "AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T A MINORITY, OR A WOMAN, OR POOR TO START WITH" but there are so many examples of those very Americans overcoming whatever and being all that they wanted to be. I grant that some groups have a steeper hill to climb, but mostly the walls that stop them from succeeding are walls they built themselves.

    Anyway, what is the point of "giving" everyone "free money"?
    If everyone gets, say, $1,000 a month from the government, how does that benefit anyone?
    Won't prices just go up accordingly?
    How is that going to raise the standard of living for everyone?

    What I think it will do is momentarily blunt the drive to succeed.
    You know, why should I bust my arse today, my pot bill is covered, thank you Uncle Sugar ............

    And anyone who thinks that money is "free" didn't pay attention in school.
    Ain't no free anything.
    Somebody has to pay, right?
     
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  7. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered Donor

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    One other thing. My daughter was a gymnast for over 8 years, hoping to get on college teams while we hoped for scholarships. Until she blew out her knee.

    Watching practice was always a treat, because her coach was all about hard work to achieve the goal.
    When the team started complaining about it was too hard, or he was a booger for making them do all this sweaty stuff, he'd go in the office and get a box of metals and trophies.

    And he'd hand them out; "Here, Tracy, gold medal for the beam" And Bobbi, Gold for your floor exercise" and so forth. And of course, gold for the team. And then he'd say "now that you all have your awards, guess we can just cancel practice for the rest of the week, see you on Saturday for the meet" (which was usually some big deal and involved one of the teams everyone hated and wanted to beat most).

    His message was loud and clear; realizing a goal takes work, not complaining, and if you didn't work for it in the first place, it probably won't happen and even if it does, will you appreciate it?

    Not to brag, but the team was consistently a top state team, and my daughter was 4th all around at her level in state 3 years running.

    And I had to laugh at Christmas when my granddaughter was complaining that she couldn't ride her bike, kept falling off (she's 4). My daughter dragged her tricycle out of the garage and said "here, this we know you can ride" which bigly pissed off granddaughter cause, you know, big girl now. When the tantrum was over, mommy said if you want to learn to ride the bike you have to work at it. And off they went and by the end of the day granddaughter was only crashing every 20 feet and was as proud as could be that she could now ride a bike.

    The moral is, if you didn't earn it, was it worth it?
     
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  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would this really be very different from just reducing taxes by that same amount?
     
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  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2024
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  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do believe so.....
    because money in the economy acts like BLOOD IN THE HUMAN BODY.....
    so by putting money in the hands of all citizens...... will boost spending.... which will lead to the need for more production... and thus create jobs!

    But this is obviously different than relying on Ottawa and Washington giving out money to their billionaire buddies... and then depending on those billionaires to create jobs!!!! Ordinary people create a different type of job than billionaires do...... because ordinary people tend to renovate their homes and buy better food... such as buying organic food rather than that GMO garbage, that in my opinion, is not even fit to be fed to pigs!
     
  11. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The question of whether there should be a minimum basic income
    is a very good one, but one that should be replaced by what I think
    is a slightly better and related question.

    1. The most important question is whether healthcare should be
    available, basic healthcare, not cosmetic, free and point of
    delivery by right.

    Most people even those without Medicare and without Medicaid
    and without all those other forms of government supplied healthcare
    can still get necessary healthcare, easily at the level of primary
    healthcare, and in most states through various schemes also at
    the secondary level.

    But in some circumstances they can't and you see those photos
    of patients dumped outside the hospital, who get taken off to
    a hospice to recover themselves or not.

    95% of people do just fine without universal healthcare - which is
    a significant piece of universal basic income -

    but about 60% of the population are worried that it won't work out
    fine.

    Whether it's a universal basic income, or universal medical coverage
    the alternative is Fear.
     
  12. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    2. what's the point in a UBI (Universal Basic Income) without
    universal healthcare coverage?

    So you get a guaranteed 2,000 dollars a month and your
    medical insurance costs 17,000 a year, that leaves you
    with 600 a month for rent and everything else.

    A good thing about UBI is it replaces all other forms of
    social security. 2,000 a month for one person really is enough,
    so no food stamps or other stuff.
     
  13. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    3. Universal Healthcare would allow the US to retain low
    paid employees without the prohibitive cost of healthcare

    which saves money by giving production work to Asian
    and other countries where healthcare costs are lower.

    1. If UBI still leaves everyone responsible for their
    health insurance costs, it might not be worth much.

    With healthcare costs there are steps in income where
    a person can get caught.
     
  14. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was working in retail and the public went nuts when
    they found that the retailer with the highest income was
    paying workers so little they were eligible for Medicaid.

    So the public was outraged and demanded pay get raised
    and the Democrats in particular went nuts and could not
    be stopped.

    So my pay went up a little, I lost my Medicaid, and had to
    quit work because I needed an operation and could not
    afford to pay for it on my own. It took 2 hours, outpatient
    operation, was charged at 52,000 dollars.

    Thank you public (idiots, I don't know if you've met the public).
     
  15. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I supported Andrew Yang until he came out in favor of war
    in Ukraine and showed that he believed the garbage Joe
    Biden was spewing, and then I thought, well, why replace
    Joe with someone equally in favor of pointless wars?
     
  16. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    But but, Dennis, isn't it true that

    Where are those money gonna come from - other people's taxes?
    Also, imagine a folk working 2 jobs - one major and one part time. If they get those $777 per month, they would most probably quit their second job. Why bust your a** off? So, the second job would be undone/ vacant. That would lead to job market problems.
    Also #2, imagine the immigration fever. America has got it bad right now on the southern border. But imagine if they give free money what the incentive to immigrate to America would be. Mind boggling.
    Also #3, those hoboes and bums in tents would never leave the streets of LA if they have UBI of $777, enough to buy food and some clothes.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2024
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  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No.....
    that money is simply PRINTED... just like President Abraham Lincoln did in order to finance the Civil War in a manner that saved American taxpayers a whooping FOUR BILLION DOLLARS IN INTEREST PAYMENTS!!!!!

    Money in its many forms acts in the economy like BLOOD in the human body.......

    no blood... no life.... no money.... no economy!!!!!!

    Take a look at the Worgl Austria Local Money Experiment that was initiated in 1932 during the Great Depression......

    tio get ab idea of how important MONEY in some form....
    is to make economic activity easier and more efficient.........

    http://www.whatcomwatch.org/php/WW_open.php?id=717



    Here are some critical details about what President Abraham Lincoln did that some of the wealthiest people in the world DO NOT WANT ORDINARY PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT..... so this part of USA history tends to be ignored in university level economics courses.


    http://www.cidpusa.org/lincoln_JFK.htm




    But... the critical part of the whole formula IS TO NOT RADICALLY DECREASE THE PRODUCTIVITY OF USA AND CANADIAN WORKERS WHILE THE SUPPLY OF MONEY IS INCREASED........ OVER THESE PAST FIVE YEARS THE TRUDEAU ADMINISTRATION HERE IN CANADA AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IN THE USA SINCE JANUARY OF 2021 SEEM TO BE INTENT ON DRASTICALLY REDUCING THE PRODUCTIVE CAPABILITY OF THE WORK FORCE...... COVID 19 WAS THEIR EXCUSE....... BUT CHINA is skilled at sending out people who influence our elected officials at the top levels.

     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2024
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now I have to admit that the fact that I am living here in Canada may have a great deal of influence over my
    views on this topic.

    We Canadian are faced with the choice of whether or not we would want to spend twenty billion Canadian Dollar each month ourselves......
    ... or rely on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to invest that twenty billion per month wisely for us??????

    Forty one million Canadian citizens and legal residents x five hundred dollars per month = $20,500,000,000 per month]!

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe firmly that this is the best way to set in motion the PAYING OFF OF THE NATIONAL DEBTS OF CANADA AND THE USA...

    THAT ARE significantly a practical joke that was set in motion beginning in 1974.......

    ......
    But.... this was partly a PRACTICAL JOKE... that Canada's Prime Minister Pierre E. Trudeau was involved in back in 1974....... AMERICA WAS THE REAL TARGET.... we Canadians merely got in the path!!!!!

    "My plan to pay off the deficit at the rate of twenty billion dollars per month? "

    Am I a blithering idiot to think that this could work?????

    In my opinion.... An Unconditional but Taxable Basic Minimum Income to all forty one million Canadians of merely five hundred dollars per month........

    that is put into the economy in essentially the same manner as the Bank of Canada policy of 1938 to 1974 should....... in my opinion...... PAY DOWN THE DEFICIT.......

    AND SOON THE NATIONAL DEBT OF CANADA.....

    AT THE RATE OF ABOUT TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH!!!!!

    This idea is so simple that this may scare you!!!!!

    Forty one million Canadian citizens and legal residents......
    if they each receive FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS CANADIAN......

    CREATED IN THE MANNER THAT MS. BETTY KRAWCZYK RECOMMENTS......

    [in a way that creates essentially zero COMPOUND INTEREST OWING OVER TIME]......

    THEN AFTER this money turns over about three times in the economy......

    it will be taxed back into the Treasury.......

    and will begin to pay down... .first the Deficit and soon The national Debt of Canada??????

    Essentially this same idea can work in the USA as well!


    [Ms. Betty Krawczyk] ...

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...e-of-twenty-billion-dollars-per-month.618227/
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  20. Oh Yeah

    Oh Yeah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No way. The idea that a minimum wage is a good thing has proven that as soon it is enacted that the price of goods and services rises and a loss of jobs starts to happen because business passes onto the consumer the costs of goods and services. There is a segment of the people who are basically lazy or have no desire to work. work is an incentive to achieve. To each his own talents and determination. There is a segment of the population that is physically or mentally incapable of working and they should qualify for proper standard of living. (I don't think $777.00 will cut it) Which brings me to the question are we talking weekly or monthly?
     
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  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm Canadian... and so far I am talking monthly........ but as this develops... I strongly suspect that once this BigCat IDEA is out of the bag...... This BigCat Idea... will not voluntarily go back into the bag!!!!!!!!

    Oh.... I'm Canadian.... so in a way it is basically forty one million Canadians can spend that twenty point five billion..... [assuming a starting B.M.I. that is Unconditional and Taxable of five hundred per month for all citizens and LEGAL RESIDENTS OF CANADA].......... OR... PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU AND HIS ADOPTED BUDDIES IN THE HONORARY LAURENTIAL ELITE... WILL SPEND IT FOR US..... ON OUR BEHALF...... [ONCE SOMEBODY GETS ELECTED TO THE OFFICE OF MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT.... THE LAURENTIAL ELITE DO TEND TO ADOPT THEM....... AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THEM TO MINDLESSLY AND OBSEQUIOUSLY OBEY THEIR BOY P.M. JUSTIN TRUDEAU!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2024

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