Anyone interested in critical theory of long distance accuracy target practice?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Kyklos, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Soon, California might allow the sales of assuaIt weapons. I see that the right-wing is forming new para-military fascist unit named "1st Amendment Praetorian" and is announcing new civil war. Law Enforcement is asleep and have been completely intimidated and cowed by the right-wing. After the U.S law enforcement allowed the armed Proud Boys, and Oath Keepers to brandish machine guns to intimidate the American public for over 10 years.

    In fact, American law enforcement has given them extensive firearm training and assault tactics. They are ready, you are not because you think that Biden is going to protect you, LOL! One group of people that depended on the U.S. for protection ended up in mass graves in Sarajevo.

    In fact, the Feb. 6 murderous assault on the U.S. Capitol was planned with the help of Republicans in congress with some insurrectionists arrested, and are now walking around on bail because their mothers pleaded for their release! On the other hand some mothers turned their sons into police, LOL!

    So Law enforcement and congress who cannot even protect themselves is not going to do anything to protect you; hell, they cooperated with the right-wing. Like the pandemic, we are on our own. The average gun fight in America happens at a distance of six feet, and last about 3 seconds.

    I prefer the M-14 Rugar (.308) caliber rifle as a good target practice rifle, but I am undecided on what ammunition to use. Does anyone have any suggestions? And what about a ammunition conversion table for American and NATO ammunition because it is important to use the correct ammunition for the rifle used in target practice.

    I am rated as a marksman, but that is the lowest rank of target shooing; however, I was trained by the top law enforcement marksman of the PPC shooting competitions in the United States during the 1980s. I don't like the AR-15 rifle because that is what the dummies carry. I am surprised that a top line Rugar M-14 is only between $2,000 to $5,000. Life is cheap in America just like the rifles.

    Mass grave of Srebrenica where 7,500 men and boys were told by NATO they were in a safe area--your future.​

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Um... wut?
     
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  3. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    I found errors in every single paragraph. I have no idea where he was going.
     
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  4. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Write in the present active indicative please.
     
  5. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Wow, the antifascist M-14 has come a long way since WWII.

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  6. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Anyone that can shoot a pistol can shoot a rifle.

    In police academy we trained for three weeks with the 357. revolver at 50 yards, and on the last day of firearms training the instructor gave us a AR-15 to shoot: nearly everyone shot out the bullseye at 50 yards and was awarded the marksmen rank. It was the easiest thing I ever done. So those dummies on TV brandishing those AR-15 around are the lowest of the low as far as shooting goes. Some of them are so fat and out of shape that they can't even get out of a car without struggling, thus, making them a danger to everyone.

    Take for example this fool pointing a rifle at his own wife at least three times. Idiot, fool, dummies, dimwits--that's their danger.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More of that is false than it is true... but overall, I think we're on the same page: "Law enforcement and congress who cannot even protect themselves is not going to do anything to protect you" is 100% truth.

    Regarding target practice, it may be worthwhile to get yourself a 'cheap' (used) AK analog (civilianized to semi-auto) to make use of 7.62x39 ammo. FSR I seem to find that still somewhat available here and there, if not still ridiculously expensive. It will function similarly enough to a 'M-14 Rugar' (lol) as to make the practice worthwhile.
     
  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The "Rugar 30 caliber rifle" is chambered for x39.
    :)
     
  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would just shorten it to 'anyone can shoot a rifle' (with practice). The AR specifically is especially easy to use effectively. One time at the range I was shooting next to a guy with no arms, practicing firing his AR with his feet. He used a modified 'recumbent marksman' (sitting) position where the rifle was stabilized on one knee and operated with his other foot. He was slow at swapping mags, but otherwise proficient enough, and he followed all safety procedures to the letter.
     
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  10. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    I can't afford to experiment because of the high costs. It's less expensive to research the best logistical combination first, and train later. I don't like Russian weapons. A police captain once told me the M-14 was the best all round weapon, but that was decades ago. It was after ex-US military soldiers Michael Lee Platt and William Russell Matix in 1986 opened fired on FBI agents during a traffic stop with a M-14 that caused the agency to issue automatic rifles to their field agents. A five minute gun battle and Platt took some 5 shots before going down. Platt's Mini-14 rifle fired .223 Remington rounds.
    The M-14 is an awesome weapon
     
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  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ya, wasn't sure whether we were discussing the 'M-14' or the 'Mini-14'
     
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  12. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Well, Rugar didn't make M14s, so...
     
  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you're focussing on the logistics, you should reconsider the AR. Here in the US, it has the most readily available ammo (in the general sense if not right at the moment), parts and conversions, and its the most commonly used platform in the US military for (mostly) good reason. The AK is the preferred option in most of the rest of the world for similar reasons. Between the two its sortof a racecars vs pickup trucks debate. Though the Mini-14 is by no means a bad choice. I know many people who have one and none of them would say its a bad rifle.
     
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  14. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do you know of a translation table of U.S. ammunition and NATO caliber translation? I keep forgetting. Sorry, I was using M14 and mini-14 interchangeably. So a smaller bore might be better.
     
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  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    .308 = 7.62x51* (*most of the time- there may be a difference in the thickness of the brass in the cartridge that could be a factor in older rifles)
    .223 = 5.56x45* (*most of the time- there are some weapons, mostly older, that are designed ONLY for .223 and 5.56 could explode them)
    30.06 = 7.62×63mm (I don't think NATO uses this anymore)
    ??? = 7.62x54 - afaik only the Russian Mosin Nagants and Dragunovs use this round. I only included it as an example of how easy it is to buy the wrong ammo if ur not paying attention.
    7.62x39 does not have a US equivalent, or I'll be very surprised if it does. Its used in AK-47 variants (as opposed to AK-74 variants that use 5.45x39 which also doesn't have a US equivalent) and the infamous 'SKS'.
     
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  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apologies, I got sidetracked with all the extras here. Regarding "I am undecided on what ammunition to use. Does anyone have any suggestions?"

    7.62x39 is the same ammo the AK-47 uses. Its a medium-range version of the .308, meaning it has less kick but also less reach than the .308. I hear tell that often US servicemembers will acquire one to keep on hand at vehicle chckpoints because their AR's 5.56 has been known to ricochet off of car windsheilds and the 7.62x39 does not. Its generally considered less accurate than the 5.56, though that is as much the rifles fault as it the cartridge (AK-47s were not made with accuracy as the primary concern).

    5.56x45 aka 5.56NATO is the standard for NATO battle rifles today. It is high velocity, very accurate and low recoil, but its small diameter gives it less 'punch', or Energy Transfer to Target. It is the more powerful version of the .223 which some say was dersigned as a varmint round, and others say was designed to be an attrition round on the battelfield, more likely to cause injury than death, and therefore further emburdenning the enemy's medical logistics. .223 should work fine in a 5.56 Mini-14 given that the Mini is piston operated and piston operated rifles tend to be very forgiving in ammo type and quality. For these reasons I would recomend going with the 5.56x45. IIRC, some older Mini-14's were chambered in .223 only and it might be dangerous to use 5.56 in them. But if you're buying new, this will not be an issue.

    I see the Mini-14 is also available in 300 BLK now. I don't know much about this round, other than you're going to have a harder time finding this ammo and its probably going to be a lot more expensive.
     
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  17. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    You seem to know all you need to know about .300 Blackout ;)
     
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  18. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Wow. Impressive. Yes, that new 300 BLK worried me that I may settle on the wrong ammo and the video gunsmith warned to not mix up the calibers. I never studied ballistics in such detail, because it wasn't something I was interested in at the time and the empirical research of ammunition attributes is so vast and technical (a lot of Youtube videos are on this subject). But, yes. Cost, and availability of ammo is an issue, especially in some states. Thank you for summarizing this information.

    One reason I think the Mini-14 is so effective is that the discharge kickback causes less visual dissonance for faster target accusation.
     
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  19. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^
    What he said.

    If 5.56x45 won't to what you need to do, 7.62x51 will.
     
  20. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oops. I ran out of edit time.
    One reason I think the Mini-14 is so effective is that the discharge kickback causes less dissonance for faster target re-accusation--it's easier to shoot.
     
  21. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    1st Amendment Praetorian group's leader, Green Beret Robert Patrick Lewis.

    (Make sure and let your mother know what you're doing so she can call the DOJ to get you out of jail.)
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    You seem to remind me of Anton Jackson for some reason.
     
  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It appears stainless steel is still an option for the Mini-14. Its probably more expensive, but if you can afford it, it will be worth it. Corrosive ammunition isn't a common problem in 5.56, yet, but if this ammo shortage continues, it very well could become common. The two biggest enemies to firearm ownership are politicians and rust, and stainless steel doesnt really rust ;D You should still clean and oil the weapon regularly, of course, as grit can wear down even stainless, and likely some of the springs are not 'as stainless' as the other parts, but still, the less parts that can corrode, the better.
     
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  24. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Speaking of ex-US military soldiers Michael Lee Platt and William Russell Matix in the Flordia 1986 FBI shootout, there is another ex-US military soldier that seemed to have super-human strength. Platt was shot five times without body armor and still returning fire. Toxicology tests showed the bodies of Platt and Matix were drug-free.

    Another soldier, this time a ex-Navy Seal was Benjamin Adam "BJ" Sifrit who could drink and party all night then run twenty miles during the day leading his platoon--he finished first in his class. Anyway, Benjamin and his wife Erika met another couple in Fairfax, Virginia for drinks at Sifrit's apartment where they dismembered them. When Erika returned from the store to buy plastic bags, Ben was in the Jacuzzi with the floating heads of Joshua Ford and Martha Crutchley. There is a toxicity to a soldier's life which is in itself destructive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you're prematurely suggesting a causation that hasn't been scientifically established. Military service, especially combat service, can certainly change people. But it also is more likely to attract certain people. Just as those who enjoy power and control are more likely to go into politics, people who enjoy violence and conflict are more likely to try and get into the military. The military does takes steps to weed out the pathologically bloodthirsty, but it can be difficult to determine the difference between a healthy willingness to fight and an unhealthy desire for bloodshed, especially when the latter is smart enough to be deceptive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021

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