Are are American students struggling with math?

Well I've yet to hear a minimum dollar figure per student needed. It's can't simply be "more."

 

Let’s say I don’t know calculus. And let’s say I send my kid to school, and the school says they taught my kid calculus. How am I to know whether they did or not? Just ask them?

 

Yes. Ask your kid to show you something calculus related. Google a problem and ask them to solve it. Be content that your kid probably isn't going to need to know how to do calculus once they are done with math class. You have options.

 

In my hypothetical, I said I don’t know calculus. How would I know if they are right?

Wow, you’ve got to be kidding me. How do you know who is going to need calculus? Maybe someone wants to be an engineer.

 

You think this is a better option than standardized testing???

 

There are exceptions where a lot of money is going to the schools in poor communities, but most schools in poor communities are poorly funded. Entire states have the problem, especially red states. Oddly enough, having the pull to get more money (DC schools, for example) is often associated with disgusting levels of corruption. In short, those school systems don't get their money's worth.

There are superior schools for folks with lots of money. I wrote to @Steve N in Msg. #82:

I grew up in Rolling Hills Estates, CA and attended Palos Verdes High School. The median home price in Palos Verdes Estates, CA where the school is located is $3M. Rolling Hills Estates is $1.9M. Rolling Hills is $4.2M. Rancho Palos Verdes is $1.8M.

Check out the schools that cover these cities.

Palos Verdes Peninsula Unified School District

Kids aren't struggling in Palos Verdes. They have good teachers.

Many schools, especially in poor communities, do not. Especially not STEM teachers.

[...]

Nose around the website for the PVPUSD. See what they're teaching. That's where you want your kid to go to school. Think about it--the people in that school district can afford to send their kids to private schools. So how come they aren't? They aren't because the public schools are that good.

When I look at some of these big city school districts, I don't see how they can possibly provide a good education given they way they operate. Vouchers? Yes, providing they're for enough money that a poor parent can find a good private school without having to top up the voucher with money they don't have.​

Your expectations shouldn't drop that low.

 

I got a good laugh out my aeronautical engineer father when I showed him a tv ad for teaching airplane mechanics by correspondence school. My USAF test pilot father-in-law didn't think much of the idea, either.

When I was running an auto repair firm we got good mechanics and profit-shared with them. Everyone made lots of money and customers got their car repairs done right. The guys in the shop wanted us to get rid of mechanics who were slow or not highly skilled. Exactly in line with my thinking.

Our schools should be handing out credit for mastering a skill.

 

California's good schools (like Palos Verdes) are really good. But the state wastes a lot of money on mindless bureaucracy and pumping out unfunded state mandates.

 

Can't you figure out you're being gaslighted? No one talks about math being racist.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/math-racist-crowd-runs-rampant-seattle-portland-opinion-1701491
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/04/racist-math-education/524199/
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/10/math-racist-university-illinois-professor/
https://www.hoover.org/research/sea...n-racist-will-california-be-far-behindseattle

"Just 40 percent of California schoolchildren are proficient at math. What should be done? Seattle’s idea is to teach their students that US math education is racist, is used to oppress people of color and the disadvantaged, and has been used to exploit natural..."

lol.

 

Well google gives you answers too. Maybe your hypothetical child wants to be an engineer. Perhaps you should buy them a hypothetical computer.

None of your objections, however, change the fact that even a standardized test won't tell you anything if you can't see for yourself whether they know something. Your hypothetical child could get an extra 400 points because their hypothetical name is Shaquanzel.

 

A standardized test can tell us the extent to which a student has mastery over the material.

Huh?

 

Or the money is spent on things that don't translate into educational success.

I don't think you understand the value of a beginner job.

 

You know better.

 

No you think a standardized test does that which takes us back to where this whole conversation started---they may tell you where some students stand. They may not tell you whether other students stand. I guess some like to teach to the test. That way they don't actually have to use their own brains and initiatives in their jobs.

 

Law schools teach students with the aim of getting them to pass the bar exam (a standardized test). Do you think law professors are not using their brains?

 

Yes because most law schools don't teach students how to pass the bar exam. Law graduates have to take specialized crash courses after they graduate specific to the state they will be taking the bar exam in to teach them the test if they are going to stand any chance at passing it if law school is the only legal knowledge they have. You can pass law school at the top of your class and not know the first thing about practicing law or passing the bar. It is one of the complaints about how most law schools operate. After bankrupting you, you have to shell out $2K-$4K more out of pocket just to learn what they should have been teaching you.

 

Like hiring "coordinators" (my pet peeve).

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

I designed a work experience program for students to visit a couple of weeks with employers. I taught business startups. I taught accounting (a foundation skill for business). I taught computer applications. I ran an auto repair firm before teaching. There's lots more, but I'll stop.

I want schools to do a hell of a lot more than you suggested. That said, I recognize schools often to a lousy job of preparing students--what I think you're decrying.

 

Well, I guess we're never going to agree on the standardized test issue. At this point we're going around in circles, so I guess I'll just agree to disagree.

 

We we can disagree but that doesn't change reality. Here is a link to one such company if you don't believe me about the law school thing: https://www.barbri.com/bar-review-course/

 

I believe you about the law school thing. I know that every state has a different bar exam.

We disagree about the efficacy of standardized tests as a means to judge a person's competence in a subject.

 

Chinese students kill themselves over the gaokao, which is the mother of all standardized testing. Fail it and you will never go to college. We shouldn't be heading in that direction. It isn't teaching kids to learn. It is forcing them to memorize. America has other strengths. We don't have to be tops at math.

 

That's interesting. What aspects of employment do you concentrate on?

I guess I'm old-fashioned. To me a "work experience program" IS a job; part of which is learning by doing, gaining experience with co-workers, showing up when expected, and doing what you're told.

My first job was picking tomatoes in central California - I lasted two weeks; a friend recommended me to a friend who ran a restaurant - paid a whopping 95 cents an hour! On a whim, I took the US Civil Service technical exam and got an Electronic Equipment Repairman Assistant job and parlayed that into a four year Electrical Engineer degree. On every step I learned new stuff and gained skills and experience. Several of my friends had similar experiences. I feel that each step was necessary to make progress. IMHO the best way to get a job is to get the first one and look for the next.

 

OH NO! Actually rewarding someone for getting things done correctly? MERITOCRACY!!!! RACISM!! TRUMP'S FAULT!!!

 

Shut up you fascist.