Egalitarianism noun 1. the doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. Lie noun 1. an intentionally false statement. Scientific Misconduct noun 2. action that willfully compromises the integrity of scientific research, such as plagiarism or the falsification or fabrication of data. Fraud noun 1. a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities. "mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds" synonyms: impostor, fake, sham, charlatan, quack, mountebank; swindler, gonif, snake oil salesman, fraudster, racketeer, cheat, confidence trickster; informalphony, con man, con artist, scam artist "they exposed him as a fraud" Character Assassination noun 1. the malicious and unjustified harming of a person's good reputation. In a previous discussion Taxonomy26 claimed that Dr. Joseph L. Graves Jr. has repeatedly lied about the existence of biological races within the human species and misrepresented the position of Sewall Wright on the concept of race. Graves is an evolutionary biologist and reputable scholar with noteworthy academic achievements, honors and fellowships. He is widely known for his opposition to Scientific Racism including debating proponents within the scientific community, participating in academic and media presentations to educate the public about human genetic variation and opposing racism on social media. Graves fits the definition of an Egalitarian both as a political activist and as a scientist. The purpose of this thread is to investigate the claim that scholars such as Joseph Graves (Egalitarian Scientists) are Noble Liars. The author of the video cited by Taxonomy26 called Graves a Noble Liar citing the ancient Greek Philosopher Plato who considered a noble lie to be a lie told by the social elite that benefits the public. In other words they lie to the public because they believe that have a just cause i.e. the public needs to be deceived because they can't "handle the truth." This charge has been made against many Egalitarian scientists who deny the existence of biological races including Stephen Jay Gould, Ashley Montagu and David Suzuki publicly as well as intelligence researchers such as Richard Nisbett, Eric Turkheimer and James Flynn who oppose racial hereditarianism. I once emailed Joseph Graves himself about this very subject asking what his position was on the claim that he and other scientists deny the existence of races because of an Egalitarian bias and political agenda. This is what he had to say: The definitions at the top of this post are presented to outline what I understand to be the charges made against Graves and other Egalitarian scientists. A lie is an intentionally false statement. When you lie you are saying something that you know isn't true (vs. being misinformed). Scholars with a reputation for lying or conducting dishonest research are known as scientific frauds. Graves has made this criticism of proponents of Scientific Racism calling them quacks. For example he called Rushton a quack in private conversation with me, in his published statements, debated him in an academic setting and wrote rebuttals to his research which I documented and summarized in previous debates. My challenge to opponents of Egalitarian Scientists is to provide evidence that Graves or any scientists you believe are liars (noble or otherwise) have actually lied in their published statements or public statements in order to defend their positions on the existence of biological races or the denial that racial differences in IQ have a genetic basis. I stand by my position that Graves did not lie about Sewall Wright. Graves' positions on biological races and the cause of group differences in IQ is also supported by scientific consensus which was established in official statements by scientists representing organizations in relevant fields including: - The American Psychological Association - The American Anthropological Association - The Genetics Society of America - The National Academy of Sciences In addition to Joseph Graves I have cited at least 40 scholars on this subject in defense of my position so opponents can take their pick among that list of which they consider to be frauds. Saying a scholar is a fraud is one thing. Demonstrating that they are is another. So if you believe any Egalitarian Scientist is a fraud here is the challenge: 1. State your reasoning. 2. Provide Evidence. 3. Cite a reputable scholar or scholars qualified to speak on the subject who agree with your opinion. Failure to meet the above criteria will be dismissed as character assassination. All 3 of my criteria were met by Dr. Graves in his criticism of other scholars. It is only fair that opponents meet the same standard when they debate. I encourage all members who read this thread to also vote in the poll. Additionally I have informed the author of the Youtube video Taxonomy26 posted of this thread and will provide him a link via private message after I post the thread. The Youtube author posts as ApostateAbe on Talkfreethought.org where I have debated him in the past. He has a reputation for civil and intense debate so hopefully he accepts my offer to join this board and contribute to this thread.