Are we sick of neoliberalism yet?

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Diuretic, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I am. I’m cheesed off reading how the benefits are going to the top few and the rest of us re getting shafted. Don’t believe me then read these:
    ……
    From The New York Times
    More at:
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/mcwages-big-mac-test-shows-global-pay-is-falling-20150423-1mqfw6.html


    And


    ….
    More at:
    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...t-in-a-generation-report-20150423-1mrppz.html


    And you can download a copy of the 19 page report in pdf form from the Per Capita website.


    It’s broken. We’re now starting to realise that our system of capitalism is working not for the benefit of the many but for the benefit of a tiny, select few. Capital has trounced labour and we’ve only got ourselves to blame. Capital, even before it had that name, has always been antagonistic to labour.


    Way back in 1130 England the Weavers Guild had been established. But the City of London – capital in those days – was opposed to it. In 1202 the fine City fathers of London paid sixty marks for a royal charter to destroy the Guild. This was a wealthy oligarchy. This was just one of a number of moves by the wealthy to attack weavers and fullers. They used ordinances to break the guilds. The information can be found in Brooke, C.N.L. (1975) London 800-1216: the Shaping of a City, Secker and Warburg, London at pp. 284-5.

    The Coalition has to go. And Labor has to stop flirting with the neoliberals and find itself again or we'll all be in big trouble. Sorry, not "all" of us, just 99%,
     
  2. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

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    Haha, funny I thought April the 1st had gone already.

    Though it is nonsense. You've offered no solution, only made a token gesture of anxiety which you've flung haphazardly at 'the system' in a neobuzz cliche.

    The problem is overpopulation and resource demands, and communism is not the solution because we've seen it suffers catastrophic and inevitable stagnation due to its inherent restrictions. Liberalism is a pretty darn good solution because it creates the opportunity for making things better. If it doesnt work the only people to blame are the people. Imagine that, a system where it was the people responsible and allowed to take charge of their own destiny!!

    Of course actually being responsible and free sounds scarey to communists, because only the poverty stricken and disillusioned are attracted to it and those people have at hard time under anything except a gift economy - hence why communism seems fair to them.

    Meanwhile the adults will try and move forward, and yes this means a bigger wealth gap going into the future - simply because as the top of the pyramid gets higher, the baseline of zero wealth stays anchored at that quantitative foundation. The real bottomline which needs assessment is the safety net that is welfare, and the higher the pyramid goes the wider that safety net becomes. This means its going to be an inevitably increasing burden and thus large populations will need to have higher amounts of uber successful business to provide security to meet the dynamics of the shifting lower (wealth) classes as they flirt with the safety net. The caveman ideology of economics, such as communism, is doomed to short sightedness and whenever its been tried it fails miserable in real world conditions.

    Don't be 'afraid' of the uber wealthy companies, they are produced by and required for larger populations. It's all just a game, you either learn the rules and play or you struggle and rely on others hard work to keep you alive and living on the edge of poverty - it should be noted though, that welfare standards are mostly better then anyone else had 100 years ago anyway when looked at realistically.... better health, better transport, better entertainment, longer life - the reason people are unhappy has very little to do with wealth, its about freedom - the very thing communism actually takes away. At least in capitalism anyone can play and win their freedom by a combination of hard work, dedication and clever thinking.
     
  3. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    On the whole, I totally agree with this. Its time people took accountability and responsibility for themselves and their situations, and stoppedalways relying on others to help and support them all them time. Yes, there are physcially and mentally disabled members of the community that need support and assistance, but for individuals without a physical or mental disability, then there is no excuse for them not to get off their lazy arses and put some hard years in for themselves and their families futures.
     
  4. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Our economic system is failing us. Not enough jobs for the people who are here. For those with work insufficient payment for that work. There has been a shift away from productivity and an emphasis on operations to increasing profits for shareholders and senior corporate officeholders. The benefits are not being shared on a proportionate basis which is what our form of economy needs to ensure it can operate effectively.
     
  5. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    So let's stop the 200,000 or so migrants coming here every year. But what you say is rubbish, there are plenty of jobs if you are prepared to travel to get work. A large perecentage of the unemployed are that way because they don't want to work.

    Rubbish. Australian workers are relatively well paid for whatever level of work they do. Some are very much overpaid.

    What? Isn't increasing productivity how you increase profits?

    So you think all the lazy, bludging malingerers who don't want to work should share in the benefits that workers enjoy.
     
  6. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Adultmale, you just wasted the half hour it took you to type that post.
     
  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism like any other power base, wants and needs balance

    Unfortunately they learned the value of advertising and mass psychology and since then have managed to convince the average person - particularly Americans that
    A) Free market solves all problems
    B) Socialism is eeeevil
    C) Communism is evil incarnate
    d) Regulation is bad
    e) Governments are all evil and bad and out to stop innocent free marketeers making life wonderful for everyone

    [​IMG]
     

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  8. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

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    You've got two options, lead with strict controls which limit freedoms and let human nature slip up behind power structures (communism), or lead with too many freedoms and let human nature reveal itself so the system can be adjusted to exert the minimum required limits on freedom for a successful society. I'll give you another hint.... capitalism is the later. It seems really childish to complain about the marginal failings of a better system and ignore the massive failings of the alternates.... unless you have your own suggestion for something different which you think is better!?
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't have taken 1/2 an hour.......................Oh! See what you mean :)

    But I love people who complain about what other people are paid - without ever having done the job themselves
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Why limit a complex system to only two options??

    One of the main issues with capitalism is that we have given corporations the rights of individuals without demanding the same level of social responsibility - or are those last two words heresy
     
  11. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    Greed and the desire to have power and control are common human traits that will rear their ugly heads no matter what political or social system you have.
     
  12. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do the Kiwis pull it off ?

    I do know they regulate immigration very heavily so as not to import health problems.
    The Kiwis seem to be the :flagcanada: of your GeoPolitik. True?


    Moi :oldman:


    r > g


    NO
    nz-flag.jpg

    NOR
    Ca519.gif


    Eh
     
  13. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

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    They arent 'options', they are approaches which are represented by those two example systems.

    Did you want to discuss corporate law!? It's an entire field devoted to managing that very thing.

    A lot of the lefty folk complain about how things aren't perfect, but its unrealistic to expect perfection. What we need to focus on is the best ways to try and reach a most perfect solution which is possible.... hence why using broad concepts like 'approaches' is easier to start off with. If the alternative is broken to begin with then it seems like it would be hard work to build a working version of it, and given it was attempted in different parts of the world and failed miserably already, why bother!? Unless of course you do actually have a better system in mind... or did I stumble upon a whinge fest or something.
     
  14. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    The term 'capitalism' means many things to many people, so I won't fall into the battle of 'isms'. However, I support the idea of government protecting all of our bodies and our property. Likewise, I oppose the government initiating force against those who haven't trespassed against anyone's body or property, or have threatened to do so. That will allow each of us to maximize our ability to earn and keep our wealth, making us more prosperous.
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I gather you think I support communism

    I don't

    I advocate for balance of power - end of story
     
  16. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to be personal, so it doesn't matter what I might think you think..... I'm arguing the topic as I see it.
     
  17. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    The problem is neoliberalism, laissez-faire in drag. Capitalism is a dynamic economic force, no doubt about it and it has done humanity much good. But now it has morphed into crony capitalism and neoliberalism and the dynamism of capitalism has been harnessed by the few for their benefit. You can see from the info I posted, the wealth is going to a few. Wages are well behind in growth terms, what has been rendered to senior executives and shareholders. Were I a communist I would welcome this. I would dearly love to see it extended until it breaks. I'm not a communist, I don't want to see the system break, I do want to see it reformed and I want to see it reformed in my country. Unfortunately neither the Coalition nor Labor have the will to do so - yet.
     
  18. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    So capitalism has been replaced with cronyism. And now that we don't have capitalism any more, we're blaming capitalism and not cronyism?
     
  19. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism is still in place, it's just morphed.
     
  20. DominorVobis

    DominorVobis Banned at Members Request

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    Interesting video.
    [video]http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_tudor_jones_ii_why_we_nee d_to_rethink_capitalism?utm_so urce=newsletter_daily&utm_campaign=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=button__2015-04-16#t-583540[/video]
     

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