Ahhh so you were representing the death penalty as the ultimate solution.....teachers with guns can do that as well, don't you think? The government nor "WE" allow freedoms, they are ours without the need for permission from anyone.
... teachers imposing the death penalty? ... I don't think that's a great idea. (although it would give a whole new meaning to the idea of late penalty.)
Dredd being a fictional character and all, it's kinda hard to follow the logic of your comment, on the other hand following your other train of thought (the one we were discussing) If we cannot achieve a perfect world by removing everyone's freedoms then by your logic it makes perfect sense to allow teachers to achieve their own and that of their students right to continue living by removing the freedom of the criminal.
You are assuming a black and white world, not unlike the world of Dredd. I am not comfortable with that assumption. I don't trust Dredd to keep the world safe and neither do I trust enough teachers to allow them to bring guns into our schools. I agree with you we won't have a perfect world. I don't see that as a justification for telling people they can bring guns to school.
Well, bringing guns to school is not a black and white action of execution, it is a reaction to not being able to provide a perfect world by removing everyone's freedoms. Judge Dredd is fictional, teachers using their bodies as shields as the only weapon they have to protect their charges is real life. I personally trust that teachers would do a much better job of protecting kids from an active shooter with a firearm than just standing between them and the killer with nothing. It is a perfect justification, since one will always result in absolute failure and one has a chance of success. It the difference between an emotional reaction and real life.
That's not how it works in this country. Would you prefer that government and law enforcement treat you as guilty til proven innocent? I see how you value your fourth and fifth amendment rights.
It is that simple imho, and the fact that the criminally violent won't or can't change is reflected in our recidivism rates. There is no comparing a jay walker and a 4 time convicted killer, its not even in the same universe. People who show no respect for human life in turn do not deserve our compassion, whereas someone who steals food to feed his family probably does. The kinds of criminals I'm talking about are the worst kind, who prey on other humans. I think I'm safe from ever ending up on the side of criminality, because I try to live my life by two simple rules. 1) Don't do something to someone else that I wouldn't done to me and 2) Don't make stupid choices, don't suffer stupid consequences. Why not trust the teachers? They could bring in a gun anytime they wanted, they don't need a CCW for that. To my knowledge no teacher in this country has ever pulled out a gun and started shooting at children. Many of them have thrown themselves in front of bullets to protect their class though, and given their lives for them. The entire CCW program proves just how trustworthy people like us are....we don't go through classes and the responsibility of carrying so that we can shoot up the foot court. People who do that don't bother, they just steal guns and carry them illegally. The value in a teacher who has a CCW being in a classroom when a lunatic attacks is the ability to defend those children by doing something more than using their body as a bullet trap.
Let me correct you on the above bolded. Only illegal gun carriers create gun violence. When you banners stop treating honest people like they are criminals, then you will have some credibility on these types of forums. Second of all, you are right. CCWs are meant to be reactionary. We (including armed teachers) are not cops. Our presence is not a deterrent, it is for giving us the chance to save our life and those around us should we be violently attacked. Lastly, We are not suggesting that teachers take the place of armed guards. For schools that don't have armed guards in their budget, an alternative is allowing teachers that possess CCWs, to be able to carry at school. Protocols and active shooter education would help teachers defend students until police arrive.
[video=youtube;ODbAHqn_qmo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODbAHqn_qmo[/video], Utah Teacher accidentally shoots self at school. Idaho State University teacher accidentally shoots self in class. Teacher Kills 12-Year. Teacher guns down six colleagues in Education Department building.
It happened inside a movie theatre at Central Mall during a showing Friday night. Police say the shooting was accidental. Witnesses it happened 45 minutes into the movie. "At first what popped into my mind was that someone popped a bag of candy or something and goofing off or something," said Heather Myers, who was inside the theatre when the shooting happened. Then seconds later, a man sitting three rows behind Heather and her husband Domenic, yells out for help. "This guy started shouting 'Oh my God, I just shot myself! I just got my concealed carry,' (link)
Are you lumping CCWs together with those that are not legally carrying again? - - - Updated - - - Anecdotal stories are not trends, so they mean nothing. There are exceptions to every rule.
So you got a video of a guy breaking furniture, a couple people with accidental discharges, and two whackos from the crazy ass middle east countries shooting people. On the other hand, how many children have died in this country because there was no one armed on the spot that could stop them? How many millions of current CCW's do we already have out there walking around without incident? Accidents can easily be resolved by carrying without a round chambered. A gun cannot fire without a round in the pipe, it is impossible to have an accident when carrying in such a way. Even with these risks, it is still better than the status quo of waiting your turn to be shot when it does happen.
One of those accidental discharges killed a 12 year old student. I don't agree the risk is worth it. You want to reduce gun violence at schools, I'm with you on that. But bringing in more guns isn't the way.
And how well has that worked out? Has any disease truly been rendered extinct in the world, or has it simply been classified as eliminated within the united states? Measles was supposedly eliminated in the united states, until it was reintroduced years ago, coinciding with illegal aliens crossing the border into the country, and carrying all manner of diseases with them, as reported by border patrol agents who became infected themselves. - - - Updated - - - Which means what precisely? Do you truly expect anyone to believe that someone who is a drug dealer by choice has creative aspects that could benefit society if they could simply be convinced to accept a sizable pay cut that went with adopting a legitimate form of employment? - - - Updated - - - Which was done through the matter of due process, made possible by a trial for his crimes.
Patently false. The FBI has reported that eighty percent of all violent crimes, including those committed with firearms, are the actions of those known to be affiliated with gang organizations, and prohibited from possessing a firearm. And precisely who is most qualified for firearms ownership? Police officers, who have demonstrated at best a forty percent hit rate, meaning only four out of every ten shots fired strike the intended target, while the other six go on to hit unintended targets and innocent bystanders? The obvious question of "so what?" must be asked in response. What difference does it make? Meaning what precisely? The use of uniformed guards has come under fire in light of a number of abuses committed against students who are either of a minority, or have physical and mental disabilities. - - - Updated - - - In the same manner the cities of Chicago and the district of columbia attempted, and were each classified as the murder capitol of the united states?
Then show us the number of incidents where someone who was legally carrying a firearm on school grounds, in full compliance with the laws of that state, are directly responsible for acts of school violence. Surely if they exist, it should not be that difficult for you to present them to bolster your case. The only possible reason you would have for not doing so in your very next post, would be that the statistics simply do not exist, or simply do not reflect what you are attempting to claim. What is the reason? Are there no statistics to cite? Or are the statistics of such a minute level, that they do not even reach the double digits range? - - - Updated - - - Answer the question as it was presented to you. Do not change the subject of discussion. Has any disease truly been rendered extinct in the world, or has it simply been classified as eliminated within the united states? If you have evidence to show that a disease was once common, but has successfully been eradicated from every corner of the globe, and no longer capable of infecting anyone, then show us. Otherwise drop your argument.
You want me to prove something doesn't exist... and if not, drop ... what argument? I am not going to obey your orders. If that makes you unhappy: I really don't care.
That is wrong. Do you deny that cops do not engage and cannot initiate in gun violence ? I specifically did not say permit holders because of open and constitutional carry states and cases of firearms used for hunting....To say that legal carriers are not involved in gun violence neglects all the hunting accidents and involuntary manslaughters that go on with legal gun owners and carriers not issued a permit who were legal before a trigger was pulled. You are a legal carrier of any gun in your house of a gun that was legally bought, even by second hand non background check sales and you are not a felon. First time offenders of gun crimes in states with constitutional carry or open carry are ALL LEGAL carriers until they pull the trigger or commit the crime. Hunters involved in hunting accidents or accidents involving in the home of a legal gun owner who uses the gun for home defense are legal gun carriers . Lastly, calling me a gun banner is completly erroneous, judgmental and irrelevant. Only people carrying guns can initiate gun violence. You can parce it all you want. But it's true and that is why you want the most qualified carrying a gun. They are the only ones you want to initiate and engage in gun violence, including the armed guards I refer to later.
Why would you assume that if history has proven CCWs to be responsible? Again...... We are innocent till proven guilty. You can let cops search you for no reason if you want, but we value the Bill Of Rights.
