Stories change with time. The fabled heart hit was from a 9mm. It was a 147 gr. Federal Hydrashok that had penetrated the left arm and stopped just short of the heart. That's what started the whole move to "something stronger". What I always found to be totally odd was that the 147 gr. hydrashok was loaded to just around 950 fps from a service weapon, when it can safely go closer to 1,100. That woulda' did it. Edit- You see that the version of the story was different between the one that QLB heard and the one I heard. Run with his version. He was closer to the truth at the time.
Joe, it was a 115 Winchester Silver Tip that was used. I don't think the 147's were even in existence then.
See, I tolja' that your version was more accurate than mine. My complaint about ballistics still stands. The Silvertip was no slouch of a bullet, but they only drove it to around 1,150 fps, with energy around 370 ft./lbs. We know it can be safely loaded to go more like 1,400+ from a 5" barrel. That woulda' did it.
My carry weapon is SA/DA so I leave the safety off. It's no more dangerous than carrying a DA revolver. - - - Updated - - - That's how I carry too. I'm pretty good at shooting in SA mode but I need more practice with that first DA shot. Been working on that more lately.
You remind me of those days with the Ruger P series. Just foolin' around at the range and measuring your ability by results on paper can be misleading. Think of a real life encounter. Something bad jumps out of the shadows, and you barely have time to recognize that it's a real threat. Draw and take that first shot without aiming. Point shooting. At real fighting range, you'll probably be only a few inches off, and that first shot would connect. Continue point shooting as you bring the gun up to where you actually use the sights, and you'll probably find that you're hitting somewhere on the target every time.
The question hasn't come up yet, but in this discussion, it should. Defensive ammo testing. Lucky gunner does excellent work, and this is very much worth reading: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm
A good example I use is walking in the woods. It resonates well in the area I train. I reckon you can jump up a rabbit just about anywhere. But what I'm talking about is snakes. In our little piece of paradise we have water moccasins, copper heads, eastern diamond backs, eastern corrals, and timber rattlers. Most of the folks I train have had at least one 'oh s***' experience where they nearly stepped on one. I tell them imagine pulling their gun and getting a good hit, within a second of you spotting the snake. One guy sent me a picture the next day of his NIB magnum judge.
Unless they are around your farm or house, it's foolish to shoot snakes, poisonous or otherwise. If you can see a snake to shoot it, it's a safe snake. It's not like snakes are these ravenous creatures trying to kill you. I'm a Scout leader. I often seen snakes when we hike--I have a good eye for them. As an slow, middle-aged man, I tend to take up the rear of the troop when hiking, so the snakes I see are after 10 or more boys have already passed by. Snakes aren't monsters, and they make life interesting. Now, again, around your farm or house, is a different thing. That's a safety thing, if the snakes are poisonous. Leave the non-poisonous ones alone, as their is rarely enough food for a lot of snakes, so the non-poisonous ones will keep the food from the poisonous ones.
I agree. But as most of the folks I work with have come close to at least one without seeing it until they're a few feet away; it is an effective analogy, relating to how fast a threat can present itself. About 2 months ago I was at the range, had to walk back to my truck. In my path about 5' from my driver door was a 3' long moccasin. A guy was walking beside me, I spotted it about 10' away, reached my arm up in front of his chest to stop him. I said stay alert stay alive. Bout 2 seconds later he spotted it. Said holy s***.
Maybe we all have a snake story. I was rolling along in the Utah desert one fine day, and the call of nature had grown persistent. I stopped the car, opened the door as I began to swing my legs out, and a nasty little snake reared up, rattling and swaying back and forth. I normally don't have a grudge against rattlers, but this guy scared me! The first few rounds were already gone before I started thinking about what I was doing.
Lol, seems that's how it happens most if the time. A few buddies and I were going camping, paddling down this tiny creek with trees over top of it. Snake fell into the other boat. One guy was absolutely terrified of snakes, 8 rounds of 45 into the deck. Never his the snake. He hit the shore quick though. Funniest part was seeing that 280# guy sprint, I'll bet he broke a record for the 40
But what happened to the other boat? I was trying last night to add this little story to a previous post, when connection problems came along: The thing that got me thinking about this is kind of a funny story. I was hunting wabbits in Utah with an SKS that I had just bought. I was being vewy quiet and sneaky, creeping around through sage and juniper trees. Suddenly, the tree to my right made a lot of noise, and something BIG brushed my shoulder. I just about jumped outta' my own skin. It was a Golden Eagle who was just as shaken as I was. My frazzled mind was telling me that I nearly killed an Eagle. My rationale came back a little, and I laughed. Yea, I "nearly killed" it, but it was 200 yards away by then. This is the kind of humbling experience that causes serious reflection. What if it had been some crazed person instead that brushed my shoulder? It would have been instant physical combat, and I would have lost a serious little piece of time in that frazzled instant. I think this kind of experience is a very important part of training, because unless you really have been in that disoriented instant, it's almost impossible to imagine.
It's something to think about huh. It's pretty much impossible to replicate real life in a training environment, but we try to make it's a real as we can. With good experienced role players it helps. Have some Army buddies and sheriff's deputies that help out whenever they can. The students not know who/what/when/where/how the the threat is in a given scenario is the best way to train force in force. Works best with a lot of role players, obviously. I continue to stress being in a good mental state. When they are going through a scenario, they are already in a heightened state. Having a "bad guy" bust around a corner during an AAR is when I really see how their mental state is.
That's what paddles are for. I like guns, but not the stupid use of ones. Who's boat? And, how pissed where they?
good choice my stock gun-a CZ custom shop Shadow 75 (which qualifies under the league rules I am in since it has the factory trigger, safety) Limited-CZ Custom Shop CTS-this is the TS version highly modified-large safety SA only under 2 pound trigger. Open/Unlimited-CZ Czechmate modified to shoot minor power 9mm for steel 22-CZ KADET I used to shoot for EAA when they first started in the USA-shot the gun that was the basis of what Eric G won 5 world Championships with-gave it away when my contract was up
My Competition gun is a CZ 75 Shadow, It was built at the CZ Custom shop by Angus Hobdale. The trigger work is fantastic with not much difference between DA/ SA. I have a Tanfoglio stock II on order.
I shot the crap out of it and the 9X21 was pretty hard on guns. A guy who was a gunsmith and a decorated SF guy from Nam used to help my wife learn how to shoot and he was looking for a "steel" gun for his son. So I gave it to him
those are nice-the EAA stuff is getting to be about the same quality as the CZ but about the same price too though the EAA Gold Team Race gun is about a K or more less than the Czehmate. Lots of the steel league shooters in SW Ohio are buying the various EAA guns-since one league allows anything short of comps, ports and electronics in the "production" division, the top of the line EAA limited guns in 9mm are really popular
I'm a big EAA fan. Can find them on sale NIB for around $250 from time to time, I don't think there's a better pistol out there for that kind of money. Granted they're usually the poly ones, I like steel because it offers better recoil control for me. But the poly are still accurate, out to 100 yds for me- if I do my part correctly.
