Australian health officer tells citizens to not talk to each other — 'even ... your next-door neighb

Your logic is flawed. To be have any meaning 'rules' require the implicit agreement and consent of all parties. After that they have to applied consistently and appropriately. If none of those things happen then your 'rules' are meaningless drivel. Small villages of a few score people might be able to operate on that principal but it would be impossible to coordinate when millions of people have to consent to the imposition of and agree with each and every 'rule' in the first place, then unite to enforce them. And then if they are broken there's no way to punish the person concerned because there's no authority capable of doing so. Unless of course you regard spontaneous 'mob' rule as ideal.

And that leaves aside the history, archeology , psychology, biology and anthropology which show no society like the one you describe has ever existed. You don't like hierarchical authority fine. Take your complaint to evolution because its the norm across the animal kingdom, or at least those with advanced central nervous systems.

I'll look it up. Or send the link.

Aah then, you see I thought you'd say something like this when I framed my original scenario. Who said anything about saving your property. Who said they don't require access to save someone else's?

If you want protection you contract that protection in advance? Well that's all fine for you but what about those around you? The others in your community. Why does your right to say 'no' to access override their right to save their homes, possibly event the lives of their loved ones? For that matter even if you have given prior consent what then the neighbor who says 'no'. Now its your home and possibly ass that's on the line and someone else is saying 'no'!

But in your world that's OK. The individuals personal right to refuse access exceeds is paramount and exceeds the rights of all others in his community to live in safety. Well done.

Oh and one last thing. Exchange the word 'fire' for 'epidemic'.

 

1) So you think you have a unified culture, in which everyone is on the same page?

2) "We" are the Western Societies which have abandoned social/cultural obligations.

 

Sydney's out for another 4 weeks lockdown!

 

They all seem a bit shell shocked.

 

1) No, you misunderstood. The part that I mean you are mistaken about is "all you have left to keep everyone on the same page is Govt".

2) Yes, we opted to do THAT to which I have no issue. What we didn't all opt for is government.

 

You have to have one or the other, else you'll have chaos.

There is no third option (an unogoverned utopia, in which everyone goes their own way but somehow that causes no problems) outside of Disneyland.

 

See below. I was waiting for crank to catch up to you.

There is a third option, of which there are several working theories. Unlike your assertion, it isn't "utopian" (a word often bandied about by those that are unaware of what anarchist philosophy actually entails). My favorite is that of the excellent economist David Friedman (some of Milton) and is out lined in chapter 29 (POLICE, COURTS, AND LAWS---ON THE MARKET) of his excellent book "The Machinery of Freedom"

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Libertarian/Machinery_of_Freedom/MofF_Chapter_29.html

 

The IDEA is utopian. The result is anything but.

You simply can't sustain any kind of peace and harmony in large groups without either force, or cultural compulsion. Even the wolf pack has to abide by strict limits to behaviour .. and they're small groups. Imagine seven billion all going their own way. Yes it might seem to function for a while, but it cannot not devolve into chaos. There just has to be an external imperative to toe lines, for any social mammal grouping to survive - much less survive in relative peace and harmony.

 

How can you explain that the idea is utopian when you have not read it in depth? How do I know? Simple because you claim the IDEA is utopian. It is not. It simply better than what we have, which focuses a monopoly of power into the hands of a ruling few. This is no different than it has always been.

I mean the chaos caused by war, limitation of freedoms, starvation of humans the use of government as a tool for corporation and individual to grow wealthier than they would be able to without it, the out of control democide and yes....diseases created and released by government entities. NO individual; Trump, Stalin, Hitler, Bush, whomever could ever kill so many people on their own without government. The evil far far, far outweighs the good it does.

"Peace and harmony"....LMFAO!

 

Welcome to zombie land. I'm bailing out.

 

from an article

"The Australian city of Sydney extended a lockdown by four weeks on Wednesday after an already protracted stay-at-home order failed to douse a Covid-19 outbreak, with the authorities warning of tougher policing to stamp out non-compliance."

hmmm, so lockdowns do not work and the answer, more lockdowns. I think this is something like lockdown 6.0

when will the Aussies wise up and tell the taxpayer funded folks to take a hike

the govt also encourages folks to rat on each other if you see someone out and about or not masked up..........seriously?????

the people stand for this?

 

health officers are very bad for your health.....actually they are bad for your finances too....let's just put them in the junkfood and smoking box...bad fullstop

 

It failed because it was nowhere near a full lockdown.

The people are actually FAR angrier about it not being a full lockdown, because they know that would have worked.

 

uh-huh

I guess they didn't get it right the 1st,2nd,3rd,4th,5th time so lockdown 6 dot oh will be a smashing success

too much power in the hands of incompetent politicians

 

Where did you get the idea that only one lockdown is required for all time and all viruses/variants? Do you also think that a single course of antibiotics will protect you against bacteria for life?

Meantime, I appreciate that it's probably a shock to learn people are angered by half-a$$ed lockdowns, but when you know how well they work you can't NOT be angry. Do it right, and it's done with quickly. Do it wrong and you end up like America .. perpetually terrorised. Every time we lockdown, it works. The virus is eliminated. If it appears again, we knock it out again. As a result, we've been able to live far more freely than you have in this past year and a half. It's the same in every country which does lockdowns properly (and there really aren't very many who do - maybe just Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Vietnam, Taiwan, and China - though those still vary to some degree).

 

You cite a single case to make a general unsupported assertion about Republicans, i.e., asserting that Republicans do what you just did -- i.e., your anecdotal story does not make a case for a general assertion about Republicans that they base claims on anecdotal stories -- which you refer to as "generalizing a single case." You just generalized a single case yourself. The pot calling the kettle black?

 

Yes we have a worrying outbreak of the Delta virus

You know - the variant that is ripping through America at the moment?

As I keep trying to explain to you - we, mostly, believe in public good and I am not surprised that they have failed to contain the virus after those boofheads, spurrred on by social media posts like yours, went and marched maskless in protest

 

It's extremely unlikely that it was the protest which has caused this surge. The timeframe doesn't gel, and the demographic mainly didn't originate from the problem areas. This is absolutely about the demographics within those LGAs not complying with directives. I'm on the inside of this round of the battle, FTR, and have access to additional data. This is biggly a cultural problem. The only solution is to go hard - send in the military or something .. because they won't stop flouting the rules until that happens. They're absolute ****ers, and any previous sympathy I personally had is lost. Ignorance has long since ceased to be an excuse.

 

You REALLY don’t get it do you? Short term lock downs so we can contain it while contact tracing does what is required.

 

I agree were boofheads and social media posts about “oooh! Youse lot is bein’ oppressed or sumfing” do NOT help. Even if they are not marching on the street these posts encourage non compliance and as we KNOW short term compliance gives long term benefit

 

Get back to me when it has been tested in real life

 

You'll just have to take my word for it that those boofheads - despite appearances and preferences - are not the problem. It's the families, grannies, teenagers, communities etc across the migrant belt (every one of the LGAs involved in this surge is a predominantly migrant area). People who've decided that the The Other's rules don't apply to them. People who think observation of their own culture supersedes the law of the land. When the Delta appears in non-migrant populations - even boofhead bogan ones - it subsides quickly. The odd protesty boof can't do much damage when he's heavily outnumbered by compliant types. This outbreak started in the Eastern suburbs, and died down there much faster than it did once it got into a wholely different demographic. That's partially due to 'essential workers', but only partly. In the main, the problem is people visiting each others homes. Even ABC is reporting on that being a major issue, and they're normally very reluctant to appear finger-pointy if migrants are involved.

 

But this is what I mean - the boofheads are just the visible spectrum the rest are taking thier cue from Fox and Facebook. Mind you I recently spent one very uncomfortable week with a now ex friend who EVERY time she had to mask up went on a rant about it and she is a nurse!

 

A terribly unthinking response!

It is. Every day. People contract independently, arbitrate through independent means. The settle disputes using means other than government.

But let's make a hypothetical and say that it hasn't. When the revolutions of the 16th-18th century began to occur and people examined the right to rule by the divine right of kings and deemed it lacking, what if the response was "Get back to me when it has been tested in real life."? You'd all still be poaching from the lord's land and your newly wed wivfes would suffer jus primae noctis !

Your unwillingness to evolve has been noted.

 

No, it's a completely different demographic. The ones causing the problems wouldn't know what Fox/Facebook were if they were slapped in the face by them. And they're absolutely not interested in conspiracy theories or any other white people BS.