Being Poor is NOT a virtue!

where are you getting this "the government gives money to the rich"? Are you talking about the tax breaks corporations get?

 

well, speaking of your signature, since you hate our society why do you view it's end as a bad thing?

or is it that you LIKE our society, you just wish everyone else would die off so you can have more of the 'stuff' that everyone else has worked their butts off to invent, develop and produce?

 

this is an asinine idea. Nevada has legal prostitution, still has poor people too.

talk about a never ending cycle of deviancy...

 

Figures this comes from a Christian. Jesus thought being poor was a virtue. He said to give away all your stuff more than once.

For everyone else who is not a Christian capitalist hypocrite, being poor should not be stigmatized either, and usually is not the fault of the people who are poor.

 

Really, I can point to a series of foolish decisions that led every one of the poor people that I know to their current position of poverty.

 

so you advocate enslaving people to corporations even MORE? wouldn't the corporation be within it's rights to require you to commit to working for a set number of years to pay back it's investment?

we already TRIED that system, it was called "indentured servant"...slavery.

 

Couple of follow up points.

Jesus did NOT say being poor was a virtue. What he said was that to follow and be with him you had to be willing to let everything go. The story was about not being consumed by one's wealth and realizing wealth is not the goal upon its self.

In fact Jesus says teh exact opposite - he encourages hard work, free trade, and peace amongst men. He was apolitical in human affairs and the age old saying "You can't serve two masters" comes directly from the Bible.

The Bible - this may be hard for some people to accept - actually decries human governments as agents of the devil and promotes a voluntaryist form of order.

Here is a well researched short paper on Biblical Anarchism:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/carson2.html

Some take-aways:

And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."

Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plough his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day." (I Samuel 8:7-1

Some more points on Millionaires: In the link I posted you will have noticed if you read it that the average millionaire has a net worth of 3-7 million with an average house value of ONLY 375k. This means that their house only makes up 10% of their net worth. Again people become wealthy by saving and investing. Many millionaires make less than 100k/year for the total household. They are millionaires because they live frugal lifestyles and don't waste their time and energy doing stupid things. If you adjust their net worth for inflation you will still have noticed that the number of millionaires has still increased in spite of the punitive tax code.

 

That's not "slavery", that's simply an alternative to subsidizing education. One or the other of those things has to happen.

 

This whole post reeks of class warfare.

Your response to SmokemoNSC's study on millionaires was one that reflected it as distractive from the uber rich that did not earn their money, of which is a negative judgment/covet of others wealth.

You assert that most millionaires come from affluent families or have connections, which is not true. Truth is that anyone of any income can become a millionaire over their lifetime.

Just putting 200(10% of a 24k income) per month into an index fund earning 8% will generate 1,054,944 in 45 years. The average american would more than double this throughout his lifetime. This is also an example of how much the government is stealing through Social Insecurity.

Becoming a millionaire/financially secure is not that difficult for anyone, it only takes prudence and patience, of which most americans lack due to financial ignorance and consumption addiction.

 

The point of this OP succinctly. Very few poor people have absolutely no volitional contribution to their own plight.

Being poor due to bad decisions and imprudence with money should be stigmatized and should not be subsidized.

 

I know this wasn't a response to me, but..why is it that corporations and rich people are doing better than ever before currently, during the time of economic disaster for everyone who isn't rich?

Do you see a trade-off between the success of the rich and everyone else?

 

You clearly are smitten with class warfare syndrome. You look at a fat man standing next to a thin man and assume the fat man deprived the thin man to get that way; as clearly indicated by your post here. Earlier you commented that the poor are often at fault for their plight, yet here you tergiversate and say that it's the rich man's fault. Which is it?

Consistency please?

 

You nare correct, saintmichaeldefendthem.

Especially when you say, "They can't afford a pair of shoes for their children, but boy do they keep the booze flowing. Cigarettes, even a little Mary Jane? No problem! Because so much of their life is subsidized through welfare, food stamps, etc, they have the disposable income for these vices."

It was Adam Smith who wisely said, “The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations.”



And thanks to my caring and considerate Administration, you can even buy booze, cigarettes, even a little Mary Jane with your government-issue ObamaCard!"

 

I'm prospering just fine and I'm not rich. I live a debtfree lifestyle. I invest/save 25% of my income. When my business is slow, I read a book as apposed to crawling to the government.

The rich are doing good because they apply good financial principles. I do not qualify for unemployment, though I pay it and I am not planning on recieving SS/medicare later in life.

I'm doing just fine because I do not trust or rely on the government. Tell me, what would you do differently if there were no safety(illusions) nets?

Would you stop buying junk, living payday to payday and start saving for your own hardships? Is your house filled with junk and toys, but your savings account is less than 1k? Are you driving a car worth more than 5k but have no emergency fund? How much is your monthly food bills compared to your monthly savings?

The poor are poor by poor choices.

 

Realizing that a lot of "poor" people are so because of spending too lavishly etc. has nothing to do with the fact that corporate titans are making record profits, and that this is concomitant with everyone else (as a rough average) doing worse in the U.S.

Why is this?

 

Ok. How does that have anything to do with what I said?

So why are they doing so much better now than they did before? Are rich people getting even smarter, while everyone else somehow gets even dumber?

Or is it largely because of corporate greed? hmmm?

Or do you not believe that corporate titans are greedy?

I live on roughly 8,000 bucks a year. I don't need to cut spending really.

What needs to happen is less corporate greed. That's only one part of the solution to today's economy, but it'd sure as Hell help.

 

What I'm simply suggesting, based on numerous clear, cut and dry studies which I should probably make a thread out of, is that in terms of real inflation corrected wealth, most people are doing (in the U.S.) worse today (slightly) in terms of material wealth. The richest are doing much better.

Why is it that since the rich are doing so well, they aren't trickling down the wealth and making it so that, inflation adjusted, the middle class is doing better today than before?

The difference is in degree. A big difference. Saying "well you're greedy too so you can't blame them" is like saying "well you have lust too so you can't blame that perverted freak".

Perhaps, but those don't contradict any of my arguments. I've been saying people should live within their means for a while.

You seem to assume, like so many others, that public entities are the only ones capable of being evil. That's delusional, to be perfectly honest.

 

"Originally Posted by IndridCold View Post
What I'm simply suggesting, based on numerous clear, cut and dry studies which I should probably make a thread out of, is that in terms of real inflation corrected wealth, most people are doing (in the U.S.) worse today (slightly) in terms of material wealth. The richest are doing much better."

The wealthy own "things." Things that have intrinsic value. The value of owned property, not just real estate, grows over the long run. And the long run is everything. The less than wealthy are stuck with dealing in currency, as they SELDOM acquire enough currency to purchase something of real value. And their plans are almost always short lived.

Property appreciates, currency depreciates.

 

No, the rich are not doing better. The number of millionaires dropped by 40% when house values fell during the housing crunch. When you see the expanding income gap it's not because the rich are getting richer, it's because the poor are getting poorer. With an unchecked flood of illegal immigrants coming into this country, the income floor is literally falling out making any proportionate comparison to nations that enforce their immigration policies impossible to make.

There is no middle class, this is a fabrication of the Left. There are only 2 classes in America today, the provider class and the recipient class.

Anyone is capable of evil. But government is not capable of creating wealth. It contributes nothing to the GDP. It's nothing but a drain on the producers. So I guess the scale is between useful evil and useless evil.

 

Reminds me of my ignorant brothers. The both have motorcycles, jeeps and boats just rusting away and loosing value.

I have savings accounts and mutual fund investments. My only debt is on my house which is worth more than I owe and all my investments will increase in value over time, despite the destructive improper intrusions by the federal government.

 

A $2000.00 credit card debt for Xmas presents will take over 15 years and $4400. to pay off at minimum payments. Do the rich do that to the poor or do the poor do that to themselves?

 

The problem, I think, is that poor people think week to week and "what's the monthly payment." It's almost unfair how kids turn 18 years old and are immediately offered a credit card. I think schools should be teaching the handling of money in the junior and senior years of high school and teach kids to think about the terms of the whole loan and not, "Got this TV at Rent To Own for only $19.95 a week!"

 

IF schools are not teaching that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what the hell are they teaching?
How many class hours are needed for such an uncomplicated subject. And what are the PARENTS doing? My Dad was never rich, but he told me almost daily, "The more you carry in your head, the less you'll have to carry on your back." And he was a staunch union man. He also taught me that debt was dangerous.