Berlin denies "Reagan" Statue to erected on its soil...US have to park it on their embassy

Still triggered.

 

Our media might not be government controlled, but they are owned by 6 corporations, and they are the same corporations that finance our candidates for office. This makes Washington and the media one and the same, and if it was not so, they wouldn't be propagating the government lies in foreign policy.

 

Lets not forget there was a armistice, The German armies marched fully armed back home. It would have cost 100,000 of additional casualties to make a occupation possible. The fight would have continued for many more month.
Nobody had the taste for it.
The Versailles treaty was stupid, simple as that. A revenge from the French, for what had happened after the 70/71 war.
The reparations were so outrages, that it would have crippled Germany for several generations, same for the occupations of Saarland and so on.
If there is a first price for a stupid document, it belongs to this document.
It was the preamble for WWII.

I would say, if there would not have been the developing conflict between the Soviets and the W-Allies, that stupidity might have been duplicated.

 

True

 

++++

I'm pretty certain those 6 corporations are not remotely the only or even contribute the majority of campaign contributions to American candidates for office.

And what government lies to you think they are "propagating"?

 

But why does Donald call the media "Fake News" when they allegedly propagate "government propaganda lies"?

 

If there is anyone that should know that the media is fake news it would be Donald Trump, since the government propagates it all the time with their foreign policy of: 'Strategic Ambiguity'. That's the art of planting false impressions in people's minds, without actually coming out with the lie.

The problem Trump has is that the liberal media is using the same brain washing methods towards him.

On Ode To Our Strategic Ambiguity Foreign Policy

.​

I'm singing now a wondrous song
To tell the world that right is wrong
and what you thought was naught before
was just a lie that you had bought -
from us - Jeannette​

​

​

 

His bigger problem is that he's a wannabe-dictator who can't act like a real dictator against free media (like Pootin and Erdogan).

 

Well in foreign policy, just about everything.

 

Well we can start with the shoot down of the airliner in Ukraine and how it was thrown on Vladimir Putin with nothing more than a: "Trust me", by Kerry ...

 

To elaborate on what I said about blaming Vladimir Putin for the airline shoot down, I had just read a few days before it happened on Vineyard of the Saker, that 4 Buks were brought into the area by Kiev, and Saker couldn't understand why. Yet our government's version was that Ukraine didn't have Buks and that they had to have been brought in by Russia.

Of course even more lies were added as it went on, that way our government could present the narrative they felt was beneficial to their agenda.

There were also the lies about Syria. As an example; when Assad's army was defeating the Al Nusra terrorists outside of Damascus, there was a chemical attack and Assad was blamed when it defied all logic since Assad's army was winning and the chemical inspectors from the UN were near by.

Before the attack happened, a truck with the components for chemical weapons was stopped at the Turkish border. By the time Fidan of Turkish Intelligence could tell them to let the truck go on, reporters from Gulan's newspaper Zaman got a whiff of it. Erdogan's opposition brought it up at the Turkish Parliament - so Obama had to know that the terrorists were to blame and not Assad.

Yet, Obama was ready to bomb Damascus when the city was packed with Christians from all over Syria who had run to Assad for protection. Had Obama bombed and Al Nusra entered the city, it would have become the biggest massacre in history. It didn't, thanks to the Pope's influence and Putin's interference.

 

Re: The Berlin Wall and erecting a statue to Ronald Reagan in Berlin on public lands.....

Ronald Reagan certainly had a role in the Berlin wall coming down. It was just not the only one factor. The cold war was a 45 year long affair. It involved many people and countries.

Berlin was an Island inside East Germany. In the late 50's, The East Germans who controlled the wall were kept in the Eastern Communist Block of countries by the sheer force and dominance of the Russian Army in East Germany. Berlin was surrounded by 5 Russian Divisions and about 50000 troops. The Russians were strong enough and confident enough to tell the East German Government to put the wall up and keep it there. Over the years this cost the Russians, actually the SOVIET UNION, dearly. Time drained their resources. The country literally went bankrupt. They no longer could keep up on building maintenance, new equipment and supplies for quality medical care, etc.They were simply over-extended and had to give up control of East Germany and the Warsaw pact. Reagan saw this and pushed them over the brink with an arms race. The Soviet Union just couldn't afford an arms race.

The actual reason was the economical decline of the communist system which in reality was a system comprising Russia and it satellites. Reagan had at least accelerated that development. Berliners know that there was much more at play than simply the influence of Ronald Reagan that forced the Soviets to surrender that wall and take it down. And the rest is history. It's appropriate that any statue of Ronald Reagan be erected on the grounds of the U.S. Embassy where it overlooks the place where the wall once stood.

 

Evidently, the entire concept and reality of foreign invasion, conquest, occupation and rule eludes you.

You might want to check out what the Geneva Conventions says about the responsibility of foreign conquerors/occupiers/rulers, as well. You'll find that they are 100% responsible for the countries and people they occupy and rule.

And East Germans tried to take responsibility for their country in 1953 and the Soviets decided otherwise. Yet, somehow you're laboring under the delusion that Adenauer possessed the means to force one of the world's superpowers out East Germany, even when West Germany didn't have an army.

A ridiculous proposition if I ever heard one...

The wealth of west Germany was bought with east german blood. Its that simple. Adenauer chose the comfort solution. He sacrificed one third of the population for money.

Of course, that's not true.

Well, that reflects poorly on you. Reagan had nothing to do with the arrangements that were made at Yalta.

Furthermore, the U.S. wasn't the only Allied power and party to the post-war arrangements that were made for Germany and, most important of all, Joseph Stalin promised to let your people elect their own government at Yalta and then he reneged on that promise and decided to make East Germany a Soviet puppet state.

Your unwillingness to hold Stalin responsible for what happened to your country is most interesting. I think gnoib was on to something...

 

The difference is we kept (and the UK) kept the commitment we made at Yalta and Stalin didn't. The countries we liberated were allowed to elect their own government and Stalin decided to enslave the countries the Soviets conquered during WWII and occupied thereafter. The difference couldn't be more obvious.

Stalin was a homicidal psychopath and that was his greatest fault. I'm not going to fault him for leading his country during WWII but he more than earned the "bum rap" he got before and after WWII. He was one of the great monsters of the 20th Century, along with Hitler and Mao.

 

Blaming Stalin is like blaming Hitler. Its easy. Im not for easy solutions.

There is a foreign point of view and one inside. Adenauer always said he feels no connection to Eastern Germany.

Sorry i wont absolve inside enemies like Adenauer who failed their people.

Its a very basic concept..."leave no one behind". As east german you know, they left your ancestors behind.

And that feeling is what drives today political development. East Germans feel no gratitude towards West Germany or the West in general, exactly because of that. Thanks for what?

To be held as hostage for over 40 years and even later on exploited after the reunion.

East Germans feel nothing towards the west german political system. Why you think the west german parties CDU, SPD, Greens and FDP and united cant form a majority in Thüringen anymore?

 

For the most part, the media is in bed with the Democratic party, and it's their candidates they finance and their lies they propagate. They did not finance the man who runs our foreign policy today - they did everything in their power to get his opponent Hillary Clinton elected president in 2016 and since then they've done everything in their power to get rid of Trump. At this very moment they're pushing the Democrats' sham impeachment proceeding in the House, just as they peddled the Trump-Russia Collusion Hoax that is about to explode in their faces.

For all intensive purposes, the MSM is the propaganda arm of the Left in general and the Democratic party in specific.

 

No, blaming Stalin is not like blaming Hitler. Hitler was dead when Stalin and the Soviets enslaved East Germany.

Furthermore, blaming Stalin has nothing to do with your talk about "easy solutions". It's about personal responsibility, a concept that is alien to a lot of people but should never be alien to anyone on the Right.

Thanks for bringing down and hastening the demise of the country that enslaved East Germany - the USSR.

To give you a glimpse into how little you understand the world that existed before you born, the only way West Germany and the West could have driven the Soviets out of East Germany was to start World War III, and that would have led to the total destruction of East and West Germany and probably a nuclear war that would have destroyed the world as we all know it. In other words, you would have never been born and I likely would have been killed in a Soviet nuclear strike.

Sorry, but that was not a viable option...

I'm sure there are a number of reasons, but other than the redistributive tendencies and policies of Left-wing parties I don't know why any region that endured Soviet rule would support Leftist political parties. After that experience I would expect people to support Right-wing parties that promote individual freedom, free enterprise and local sovereignty over Left-wing parties that promote centralized power, socialism and internationalism. Of course, I'm a libertarian-conservative American whose views appear to be considerably further to the Right than those of most Europeans who would be considered Leftists in my country.

 

Freeing you from Soviet occupation. And without even a major war.

 

40 years too late. There is nothing to show gratitude. Its that simple.

And thate exactly whats going on now. I vote the party that angers the west german nomenclatura the most. Its the meain reason for the rise of the AfD.

For many west germans its a hard reality. They expect gratitude and submissive behavior. They dont get that. East Germans proudly stand their ground now.

I feel zero gratitude. Just disgust.

@Talon

 

Without the West Germans, NATO, and the United States (including President Reagan) East Germans would've likely spent decades more cowering and quivering in submission every time Russians walked by.

You act like the East Germans forced the Soviets out on their own. Which is of course utterly ridiculous. They were basically spectators.

 

You have no clue what things were like. East Germans gave begging soviet soldiers food as early as in 1985. In many instances russians did not even wear shoes. They were locked in their baracks and treated like animals by their own superios. My grandfather said they often felt pity, because the russians got treated worse than dogs.

 

Well, he has very little knowledge about East Germany.
The 3rd Party congress of the SED, 1950, made such huge changes, 75% of the industry became nationalized, VEBs. Walter Ulbricht a hard core Stalinist was elected Party Boss.
By 1953 East Germany and West Germany had split so far apart, that any unification would have meant, that one side would have to give up its political and economic system.
Adenauer for sure was not willing to give up the system he had helped to install in West Germany and buckle under to the Stalinists of East Germany.
The same could be said for the East Germans, the SED had gained full power over East Germany and was for sure not willing to relinquish that power.

 

I suspect he's beating his chest and lashing out at the people who helped free his country because his own people were either collaborators/traitors or too weak and helpless to free themselves.

The shame and anger are natural, but unnecessary. It would be like us lashing out at the French because we turned to them for help when we couldn't defeat the British on our own. I'm grateful for their help and glad we could return the favor when they were in a similar position.

 

Awesome. Personal insults when disagreeing. How low you plan to sink?

 

If Stalin should have been taken serious, than why did the Soviets and the SED come down so hard on the revolting people of East Germany. They should have granted them their wish, or ?