Bernie Sanders' Lake House

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Nightmare515, Feb 23, 2020.

  1. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    The article you posted admitted both the truth about Bernie, and also revealed the author's unabashed snobbery in the following quote:

    "Sure, Sanders may not be a hypocrite, but this is nothing to brag about. His worthless background contrasts sharply with the successful careers of other “outsiders" in the race for the White House, including a billionaire developer, a world-renowned neurosurgeon and a Fortune 500 CEO."

    Hmm...NOT being a hypocrite is "nothing to brag about", eh? I wonder why not. Isn't Bernie a public servant...and isn't the role of a public servant to work for the benefit of the people? Why would the author compare Bernie to a "billionaire developer, a world-renowned neurosurgeon, and a Fortune 500 CEO"? That's comparing apples to cars. Bernie's goal has never been to be either rich or famous...but only to work as a public servant on behalf of those who the rich & famous ignore, yet depend heavily on. And Bernie's done so with integrity, dedication, commitment, and hard work.
     
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  2. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are many articles written about this guy and every one of them is pretty much the same.
    Bernie is a communist who has never performed in anything but the public sector and loves to tell others how to pay their fair share. When asked how his demands are going to be paid for, we get a blank stare followed by finger pointing. All of this is moot because America will never elect this pandering crackpot to the office of POTUS.
     
  3. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    A half million dollars isn't actually very much. I have many ordinary homes in my neighborhood worth that much or more. Also, two million in savings isn't that extraordinary either. If you have a decent middle-class job and manage your money right, you can get that amount of money too. Two million sounds like a lot but when you actually need to retire on it, you will still need to live a middle-class lifestyle, granted you will have financial security and a few perks.

    I get that Bernie could be doing more with his own money for the causes he believes in. However, this is a critique for everyone. How many of us believe in funding schools, fire departments, infrastructure, the military, charities, religious organizations, and other things we believe in, but we tend to spend most of our money on ourselves? This is because we humans can have such high ideals but our basic nature is still selfish, and that includes Bernie Sanders. This is why we have government in the first place. Bernie isn't proposing voluntary donations, but government actions, so at least he is consistent.
     
  4. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I guess I'm just a different type of guy when it comes to that sort of thing. I believe one should live by the ideals they believe in and be the change they wish to see even if it "doesn't matter in the big picture".

    For example climate change, I believe it's real and being accelerated as a direct result of humans and I believe we need to do better in regards to protecting the environment. However, I believe that and I say that out loud but I also am clear to mention that I'm not a fanatic or a supporter of radical nonsense policies like Green New Deal or anything. I do little things to reduce my carbon footprint and reduce waste. I have a foodsaver vacuum system and I wash and reuse the plastic bags instead of just tossing them out because I believe we really need to slow down with our single use plastic disposal. It has nothing to do with the money, I'm comfortable middle class I can buy virtually whatever I want in reason. I do it because I believe it's the right thing to do as someone who believes in reducing plastic waste. I understand that me washing my food saver bags does pretty much zero in comparison to plastic waste overall but I want to see plastic waste reduced so I live my life based on what I want to see.

    I also believe we are overfishing the crap out of our oceans and fish (for 1st world nations) is a luxury food that we don't actually need but we simply want. Plus the collateral damage of fishing nets for marine species couple with the sheer amount of plastic waste produced by fishing nets is something I feel is just way more destructive than it's worth. I believe we should implement some stricter controls in order to better protect our oceans and waterways. So I don't purchase fish, the only fish I eat is fish I catch my self. It's not a money issue again, it's a personal decision based on what I believe in even though I know that me as one person refusing to buy fish has zero effect on the fishing industry. I'm simply being the change I wish to see.

    I guess the bottom line is I myself won't advocate for things that I myself am not actually doing or willing to do. I believe I pay a fair amount of federal taxes, if I believed I should pay a higher percentage in federal taxes then I would write the US Government a check every year for the difference. I wouldn't advocate for a law that says I should pay more taxes and then wait until the law was passed before I choose to do so, that's hypocritical in my book. I wouldn't say I believe we should ban V8 vehicles to reduce emissions while simultaneously driving my V8 pickup around. The things I wish to see changed in this country are things I am already doing myself. I don't wait for everyone else to join in in order for it to start making an actual impact, I start with me.
     
  5. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Bernie will promise everyone a lake front house if you will vote him in as president.
     
  6. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    Which is why it’s good that there is now a 750k cap on mortgage deductions and a 10k cap on state and local taxes each year. Now people like Bernie and friends can’t raise taxes sky high locally and expect tax payers in lower tax states with fewer government services provided to subsidize them.
     
  7. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    I admire your idealism, but I do have a few questions. Do I understand you correctly in assuming that you almost purchase anything that produces waste plastic and that you almost never throw away plastic of any kind? That means no amazon packages, no plastic bags to put vegetables in, no straws, no plastic cups, no plastic utensils?

    You also discussed over-fishing, but then you admit that you actually fish yourself and consume that fish rather than releasing the fish. You believe that CO2 emissions are a problem, then why are you only doing little things to reduce your carbon footprint?

    Now, you are still doing a lot more than most people about these real problems, but even you yourself aren't completely living up to the ideals you believe in. Also if you believe in charity to the poor, a strong military, helping veterans, better schools, better roads, safe communities, etc, then why aren't you donating most of your own money to these causes? You told me that you are comfortably middle class, which means you are in the top 1% globally. So why aren't you giving more?

    My answer is that we humans are primarily selfish and that it doesn't make sense to be completely selfless. Even if we were to give away everything we had, it would barely change the world, and our lives would be terrible. I'm not going to stick my neck out and help society when most of our society has basically decided to ignore the problem. This is why we have government and involuntary laws and taxes, to actually get stuff done in a world of selfish people. And we selfish people can agree to government policies, because while we wouldn't do them on our own, we will do it if everyone else is pitching in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  8. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    As I said I do what I can to reduce my carbon footprint within reason but I am not a radical activist or anything. I have openly defended Greta Thunberg on this forum multiple times because although I completely disagree with her radical ideas she actually walks the walk in a huge way. When I read that her and her family believe in their message so strongly that they take a sailboat around instead of flying in airplanes I was thoroughly impressed and she has my respect although I think she is ridiculous. I'm not doing that, I believe we humans are directly accelerating global warming but if I want to travel I'm taking an airplane.

    I said we need to REDUCE our plastic consumption, not completely eliminate it because I understand that there needs to be a real world rational balance between the 2 extremes. I do what I can to reduce my plastic use but I understand that it's impossible for me to not use plastic at all. As you said when I order something on Amazon it comes in a box with plastic, there is nothing I can do about that and the extremely rural area where I live means that most products are simply unavailable to purchase via anything other than online markets. If there were an option on Amazon to pay a little more money to have a package sent to me without plastic I would take it every time. But as of today there is no such option. And being honest I don't order things very often, I have what I need and I live a simple life and me ordering things online is quite rare. However, what I do locally is shop at Costco who doesn't use plastic bags but require you to bring your own bags. I simply take a few gym bags with me and load my groceries up. I do the same even in other super markets. I decline the bagging and simply take the items in my cart to my truck and load them up. I believe the "inconvenience" of me having to load my own groceries into a gym bag is well worth the price over using 10 plastic bags that I'm going to throw in the trash in order to carry my groceries.

    The key word here is always going to be within reason and I am always sure to point that out whenever this discussion comes up. Things like the Green New Deal are not "within reason" by any means and to be honest if the entire country lived like I do then we would reduce America's carbon footprint significantly. However, even the way I live isn't "within reason" for most folks. Most of the food in my freezer is food as the result of hunting and fishing. I spent this entire winter eating primarily Moose meat that was harvested by my hunting buddies and fish that I catch. I use very little energy for my house and the main source of energy output is the result of running a boiler to heat this place that is a necessity where I live or I would literally die. I use well water that I drink directly from the tap (filters are a waste of money and resources, there is nothing wrong with pure well water it just tastes "different"). I use less energy per month than most normal families use in a couple of days. If everyone lived like me then we would be perfectly fine and I still have my modern amenities that Americans crave.

    It's not realistic though. Sure one large game animal can feed a family for an entire winter but I don't expect modern Americans in 2020 to be out there hunting for their food. We have grocery stores now. However Americans sure as hell can do a better job of not wasting food at the alarming rate that we do. The amount of food we dispose of is ridiculous, I don't believe in that at all so I waste no food. And I also never kill anything that I don't eat (I don't believe in hunting for hides or sport like many others do). If I kill it, I eat it, and if I cook it I eat it. I hear so many people, even coworkers, talking about how they "don't do leftovers". That's the very definition of a 1st world problem in my book and I don't respect that sort of blatant waste just because we "can".

    I used to donate money to the causes I actually believe in (Action Against Hunger, WWF, etc) but I found that my actual time is better served than simply giving money. I strongly believe in helping veterans and I have helped plenty personally get back on their feet my donating my personal time to them rather than just writing a check to an organization. I believe 100% in a strong military which is why I serve in the military and am a veteran of multiple wars. I don't believe in donating money to things because I don't know where that money goes and from experience I've found that not enough of the money I donate goes to what I thought it did. So instead of donating actual money to charity I donate goods. I don't trust donating money to environmental organizations anymore so instead I volunteer my time to helping clean up the local community. We take 4 wheelers around in the warmer months and pick up trash. That's one of my pet peeves, there are few things more "pathetic" than folks who litter on purpose. I'm a fanatic in that regard I suppose, the other day on my way to the store I saw trash on the on ramp and turned all the way around and went back and stopped in the middle of the on ramp with hazards flashing to pick it up and put it in my truck bed to take the dump because the local fool who tossed it out their window couldn't be bothered to do that. Seriously people, pick up your damn trash.

    In the end you are correct, people are indeed primarily selfish. However where folks tend to go wrong is when they start advocating for change when they themselves won't change. It's an easy cop out to use and folks use it all the time. "Me changing won't make a difference because I'm just one person so it doesn't matter". That's the easiest cop out folks tell themselves so they don't have to actually sacrifice and not feel bad about it. That's crap in my book. I could go outside right now and toss my garbage bags into the local river. I'm just "one person", in the grand scheme of things my bag of trash will have zero effect on the amount of trash in the worlds waterways so it wouldn't matter. That's the same thing, but folks don't see it that way. If "you" changing won't help overall then you "hurting" won't do any damage overall either because you're just one person and your contributions and reductions are insignificant. So go dump your trash in the water.

    Folks won't do that ^^^ because they know that would be wrong even though it wouldn't really "matter", but most folks won't actually change because they feel like it wouldn't really matter either. And that's the problem.
     
  9. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    So what? Depends on which articles you're referring to. Who's the author? What's the source? Are they being truthful or just insulting? Besides, if you don't like Bernie you're more likely to read articles that disfavor Bernie. Hence, they'll likely be similar, right?

    That's his job. He's a lawmaker whose duty is to ensure the well-being of all citizens. And no, he's not a communist. He's an FDR/Truman/Eisenhower/JFK/LBJ-style socialist who believes in a very well-regulated capitalist sector. He understands the incredible dangers of unregulated, runaway, free-for-all capitalism. He understands that the private business sector cannot be trusted because their prime motivation is profit...and the more they gain, the more they want, and thus the more power/influence they will have to channel more wealth & resources to themselves...all at the expense of humankind & the environment.

    Not true. He explains how [HERE]. People are just too lazy to find & read it.

    Exerpt from the intro:
    So Bernie knows exactly how it will be paid for. It will be paid the same way we're paying for everything we already have. However, (1) money will be channeled into more constructive & beneficial programs, (2) the wealthy & corporations will finally pay their fair share, and (3) a big chunk of change will come from the elimination of unnecessary/wasteful spending (eg, defense & war-making, corporate subsidies, corporate bailouts, corporate funding, foreign aid to belligerent nations & dictators, unnecessary administrative jobs & stream-lining the bureaucracy, cutting government salaries/perks/kickbacks, stricter environmental laws which will improve health & reduce health costs, etc...etc.). Bernie's not a one-issue politician. He will address multiple areas that will result in better health & well-being for all.

    But I'm curious, why is it Republicans never ask...

    * "How are we supposed to pay for rising healthcare costs as drug companies, hospitals, nursing facilities, and insurance companies increase their charges & their CEO's demand more & more pay/kickbacks/bonuses?
    * "How are we supposed to pay for more defense, more war, more covert ops (eg, regime change, instigating/funding revolutions & terrorist groups, fomenting instability worldwide, spying, etc.)?"
    * "How are we supposed to make up for tax cuts for the rich & tax cuts, research funding, bailouts, and subsidies for corporations?
    * "How are we supposed to pay for more presidential golf/vacation outings, unnecessary travels, pointless rallies, campaigning, etc?
    * "How are we supposed to pay for rising healthcare costs due to environmental contamination & destruction and poor quality food & water due to corporate deregulation?
    * "How are we supposed to pay for rising welfare costs due to loss of work from the epidemic of illness, loss of work due to injury from work safety deregulation, loss of home, workman's comp, inadequate social security/retirement, loss of farms due to big-ag. takeover, loss of small businesses due to market monopolization by mega-corporations, and the increasing control of our basic needs & resources into the hands of private business?
    * "How are we supposed to pay for a $1 trillion deficit?
    * etc...etc...etc.

    When the wealthy are allowed to rule, this list becomes virtually endless.

    That's because (1) the elections are rigged to favor pro-establishment candidates, (2) Americans are brainwashed into believing socialism = Soviet/Chinese style "communism" (which was never true communism to begin with), (3) Americans don't understand that a strong socialist program is essential for any group/nation to thrive, (4) Americans no longer have the ability to determine what's truly good/best for them, and (5) American voters are motivated by shallow interests (eg, border wall, guns, drugs, "terrorism", gay marriage, abortion, foreign "threats" (eg, Iran, N. Korea, etc.), flag burning, prayer in school, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  10. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You appear to be drowning in Sanders kool-aid. I need not refute your gibberish as after Monday it was clear the DNC will never allow Komrad Bernie Freeshit Sanders to become the nominee, and the Bern can retire to one of his three homes until 2024 when he can stir up the Democrat pot once again.
     
  11. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not Sanders kool-aid...but simple logic & reason. Try it some time after your group of Trumpanzees decide to evolve.
     

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