BMW Ends ICE Production in Germany! Mercedes?

Discussion in 'Science' started by WillReadmore, Nov 17, 2023.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Forbes pointed that out.

    Do you know the rate expected? Do you know if it is different than the rate of requests for other EVs they rent?

    I think you don't know this business issue, but still want to pretend that it is a negative indicator for EVs in general.
     
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is certainly a negative indicator.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You haven't shown that.

    They DO rent EVs.

    If Hertz made a business mistake, that's not a negative for EVs - it's a negative for Hertz ability to analyze the market and make wise business decisions.
     
  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Because demand was less than they estimated. You're making my point.
     
  5. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sounds like Hertz (and many rental car companies) didn't do their due diligence with EVs. I take my Volt into the GM dealer in my town, and most of the customer service representatives have been pretty negative towards the vehicle.

    https://insideevs.com/news/704275/hertz-ice-tesla-2024/

    Finally, it's worth noting that Hertz and other rental car companies haven't exactly nailed the experience and education part of the EV piece. It’s not hard to find a consumer who rented an EV from Hertz and encountered bad customer service, got surprised with an EV and no explanation as to how it works, or received any instruction on how and where to charge.

    Heck, I rented a Kia EV6 from Hertz last April in Phoenix. The experience was more than slightly frustrating; I was given a car with a 50% state of charge despite the reservation asserting that the car would be at or close to 100%. I needed to go to Tuscon, about two hours away, and I hadn’t planned or researched online where I could DC fast charge near PHX airport. It’s not fun trying to find an accessible DC fast charger in an unfamiliar city when you’re on a time crunch.
     
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  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Your point was that Hertz blew their business case?

    I thought that was MY point!
     
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hertz overestimated demand. That's my point.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That's not what you said about Hertz at first.

    You suggested that the Hertz overestimate was evidence of the EV marketplace.

    Yet, you haven't shown that.
     
  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The fact that Hertz overestimated demand does is indeed evidence about the EV marketplace.
    Industry pain abounds as electric car demand hits slowdown

    Reuters
    https://www.reuters.com › business › autos-transportation


    Jan 30, 2024 — Meanwhile, German EV sales, including plug-in hybrid models, fell 16% last year and are forecast to drop another 9% in 2024, including a 14 ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2024
  10. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    Had they managed their foray into EVs properly, by training employees, the demand may have been there.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You haven't said anything at all about what Hertz actually planed for EV growth to be. Nor did they think through the issues for those who rent - especially those who are unfamiliar with EVs.

    So, no. Your Hertz claim doesn't work.

    As for EVs in general, US legacy auto is continuing its downward spiral. Tesla faces the problems China is having with their economy and with car sales. There are FAR FAR too many EV manufacturers in China. Tesla chose to back off production in response.

    Also, Tesla has otherwise slowed due to their effort to bring new models to market - especially the lower cost car, which will be competitive with any ICE targeting middle income Americans.
     
  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    If people don't want them then they don't want them.
     
  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Unless you think the Hertz leadership sought failure, we can conclude that they planned for EV rental growth to make their investment profitable.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they made a variety of mistakes.
     
  15. Base

    Base Newly Registered

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    But the main one was buying into the EV hype.
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, they still rent several different EVs, including trucks.

    So, I won't believe this version until someone comes up with a reason for excluding Tesla from their collection of EV rentals.
     
  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The stock market is voting.
    Elon Musk Loses $6 Billion After Tesla's Stock Drop
    upload_2024-4-2_20-35-30.jpeg
    Barron's
    https://www.barrons.com › articles › elon-musk-net-wo...

    6 hours ago — Tesla shares slipped on Tuesday after the electric vehicle maker reported disappointing first-quarter delivery numbers. The stock's 5% drop has ...
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Tesla stock has always been up and down. There are those who like to short it. There are those who just don't do a good job of investigation.
     
  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Tesla shares slipped on Tuesday after the electric vehicle maker reported disappointing first-quarter delivery numbers."
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - the street was "disappointed". They had bet on it being higher.
     
  21. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, and water is wet.
     
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  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Germans are having a meltdown.
    Germany Electric Car Sales Plummet 30% As Country Floats Idea Of Weekend Driving Ban!
    By P Gosselin on 13. April 2024

    There’s been a drastic drop in the registration of new electric cars in Germany as sales of the “clean” electric cars have slumped nearly 30% compared to a year earlier, reports Germany’s online Blackout News here.

    [​IMG]

    Also: Germany’s transportation minister, Dr. Volker Wissing, threatens weekend driving ban (Fahrverbot) in order to meet climate targets!

    The massive sales drop is bad news for the current German socialist-green government, which aims to have 15 million vehicles on the road by 2030. Currently there are just 1.4 million!

    The dismal trend underscores the unpopularity of electric cars and consumers’ hesitancy when it comes to purchasing them. Electric vehicles are plagued by limited range, sparse charging infrastructure, steep upfront purchase price and their huge environmental impact, which involves the largescale mining of rare earths.

    “Their market share has fallen to just 11.9%. This casts a harsh light on the mismatch between Germany’s political goals and the reality of the automotive market. It is clear that political incentives and measures are inadequate,” reports Blackout News. “The abolition of the electric bonus at the end of 2023 has revealed another problem. The sector’s dependence on state subsidies became apparent. This has further exacerbated the crisis of confidence in the electric car market.”

    Fahrverbot: Germany floats national weekend driving ban!

    Another possible reason for hesitancy when it comes to purchasing a new car of any type may be partly due to the government’s general hostility to private mobility.

    Germany’s federal minister of transportation, Dr. Volker Wissing, is threatening to ban driving on weekends by motorists in order othe country “to meet climate goals set forth by the Climate Protection Act.”

    “A reduction in traffic to help meet the climate goals would only be possible through measures that are difficult to communicate to the public, such as ‘comprehensive and indefinite driving bans on Saturdays and Sundays,’ Wissing added,” so reports Politico here.

    Germany’s transportation sector would need to reduce CO2 by 22 million tonnes to meet its climate goals.

    So, what’s the point of buying a new car when drivers nay be forced to leave them in the garage every weekend? Germany’s economy and energy policy has turned into a circus run by clowns.
     
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  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    So, this is one opinion.

    I could accept that Germany is making mistakes. I should check that out.

    The market for cars has certainly included some tumult, even if you discount government intervention. The last quarter has been difficult when assessed world wide.

    As for the problems with EVs, there are strong reasons to discount the claims in this article.

    That makes me suspicious that this is another of your collection of hand picked pieces that you believe support your personal opinion.
     
  24. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is cherry-picked data from a Quack publication.

    NoTricksZone_MediaBias.JPG

    The overall trend in Germany has been huge EV number increases. Although not shown on this graph, even through January 2024, registration were up. One downtick - headline news for NoTricksZone!

    Germany_EV_Sales_thru2023.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2024
  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    We call this denial.
     
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