Boeing 737 Max 8 Ethiopia Airlines Crash

No examples?

 

Apparently not such a big deal according to the FAA. I'm guessing that the upcoming software update is to fix this issue.

How could it have been? It was information submitted in a database that pilots contribute to.

 

What do you mean it "ain't?"

 

So you need examples as proof that 1 + 1 = 2?

Go and read the world of WWW about ...

 

I just wasn't sure if you were talking about specific conspiracy theorists who have spoken out about this story.

 

There are a plenty of chats, Tweets and whatever and not only few reacted on European announcement to ground the 737, that this is a conspiracy in favor for Airbus.

 

Do you agree with the FAA that it is "not such a big deal" given that the same model of plane crashed 6 months ago due to the same fault?

Why do you think that they have a database of pilots complaints?

 

When did they tell you? It might be different in the US from the UK. When I've flown in the UK I never saw which type of plane I was going to fly in until I reached the departing lounge. The booking that I made as a test up to the point of process of paying for a flight from LA to NY made no mention of type of plane in the details

 

When you select your seat the aircraft model is provided.

 

The old type aircraft tended to be dynamically stable. Unfortunately that tends to be fuel inefficient because it is generally drag in the aft part of the aircraft which created this natural stability. i.e. think of an arrow. They fly straight because of the rear fins. But those rear fins crate drag.

Newer aircraft have moved away from this natural stability by getting rid of this natural stability. They compensate with a computers. Many of our most modern aircraft are not naturally stable. Fuel efficient, but any kind of bug in the computer system and they become uncontrollable.

In the 737 Max, the engines are much more powerful and fuel efficient. Like most modern jets, the engines are hung beneath the wings in pylons. When power is added to those very powerful engines, it tends to push the nose up and when they reduce the power, they tend to drag the aircraft nose down. The aircraft computers compensate for this condition. In an malfunction. The natural response is to change the trim on the aircraft and respond with engine thrust changes. It is easy to over compensate and go into an oscillating mode. The pilots are trained to respond correctly. Inadequate training and the aircraft rapidly goes into an uncontrollable condition. The pilots may have over responded. It is my understanding that it takes a delicate touch.

 

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You can easily lookup the aircraft type for any flight by going to FlightAware. It’s free and you just need to enter flight number. They even have pictures of the aircraft used.

 

Used skyscanner which directed me to several booking websites and neither of the two I chose gave plane types when I booked seats:

 

The type of aircraft usually appears on your itinerary when you make reservations online.

 

Attention irony !!!

You have to recognize on the basis of the seat configuration shown where you want to reserve a seat yourself, which type of aircraft it is!

 

Perhaps so, but the average Joe Bloggs will not be aware of how to find that information. There is no information given on plane type when booking the seat. The next step in the booking process is paying. It is irrelevant now that all max 8's are grounded but before that, the average Joe Bloggs will not know until after he has paid and will probably not know that he is due to fly on a Max 8 until he got to the departure lounge and still may not even notice

 

You are correct. I saw the pilot guidelines on what to do when the malfunction occurred and it was much more complicated than simply switching off autopilot to correct the plane. In particular it was not immediately obvious that it was the autopilot that triggered the nose dive process as there was a delay in this malfunction from the time of switch on.

US pilots complained that they were not made aware of this correction guideline until after the first plane crash and only US pilots were made aware that it was a software update that caused this malfunction. Foreign pilots were not informed of any software updates or told of the procedure to correct the malfunction

 

I think it depends on the website through which you book - some travel websites display the aircraft type at the search results. Some don’t show this info at all.

 

Looks like Boeing did.
They put larger and more powerful engines on the plane that reach out further than traditional 737s. This resulted in significantly different flight characteristics of the plane. To compensate for that they installed additional sensors and software to compensate for possible stalls which doesn’t seems to work out that well. This was the selling point for Boeing when pitching this aircraft - same handling as older versions, no need to recertify pilots, save money on fuel and go further. It seems to me the FAA can just let those planes fly right now, but require separate pilot certification for pilots flying these planes. Pretty much treat 737 Max as a totally different aircraft from traditional 737.

 

Not until they completely understand it. It is possible that the plane becomes so unstable that it is nearly impossible to control in a malfunction. They may have gone too far with the fuel economy. Grounding was the right decision. Another crash could nearly bankrupt Boeing from loss of sales and suits.

 

Go directly to the airline's website and get the flight number and you will see the aircraft type listed when you select a seat there.

 

If we were to apply the rate to all aircraft there would have been over 100 crashes in the same time frame. So no, not so safe.
But full disclosure. Take away one crash and that would have no basis in fact.

 

Automatically pitching nose down certainly seems to me like a big deal, but how do we know that this is what led to these crashes?

To be able to track problems. Why else?

 

My only partially informed opinion is that the system in question, unique only to the Max version of the aircraft, operates independently of the autopilot system.

All aircraft with an AP must have a cutoff switch on the control yoke, and I'm sure that was employed in both these accidents.

I base this upon conversations with a friend currently flying the Max.

 

A good point, but the truth is the F-18 is also very much controlled by computers. From someone who was present at both events, I'm personally aware of 2 incidents in which an F-18 was lost to such an event. One returning from a combat mission in Iraqi Freedom, and the other as an element of a 4 ship repositioning flight from Norfolk to Key West.