Britain’s Self-Inflicted Misery:

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by janpor, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. cenydd

    cenydd Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It goes back further than that really, to the immediate aftermath of WWII. Thatcher was undoubtably a monster, but what she inherited was a lot of industry crippled with inefficiency, dispute, self-interest (by management and unions), and a general lack of investment and care. Labour have to accept their part in creating that mess too, even though what she did in response by just shutting manufacturing down and destroying trade unionism almost completely (instead of improving and modernising while sorting out some of the worst excesses of union power, which was what was needed) was criminal. There was a need to shut down hugely unprofitable mines and make efficiency savings in other mines, for example, but there was no need to shut down the entire industry, whether individual mines were (or could have been) profitable or not - it was a purely ideological decision, but the mess left by previous governments (including Labour) allowed the circumstances where it could happen.

    That's not the first or last time such ideological battles have laid waste to the UK, with each side ignoring what needed to be done (in the interest of the UK and its population) and concentrating on what they wanted to do, whilst hiding their true agendas with vague public promises that they had no intentions of keeping, and conspiring between themselves to bring about the destruction of important infrastructure and industry, one way or another (and possibly in the interests of the paymaster donators to certain political parties). I'm sure I don't need to say anything more than 'Beeching' (again, some closures and efficiency savings were necessary, but was was done was something else entirely)! It's a history that proves the need for electoral reform and an end to the huge swings in policy (not to mention the need for continuing improvements in openness and transparency about party funding, 'lobbyists', self-appointed 'advisors', and so on!).

    What is needed is someone to be able to say 'hang on a minute - let's look at this sensibly and logically, in the interests of more than just single party political ideology', but that doesn't happen in a system which encourages governments with absolute majorities able to wield a parliamentary whip system over their own members so that they do not have to be accountable to anyone during their tenure in government. That is what the current coalition should be able to do (and is certainly doing in many cases), but this government is a 'freak occurrence' that we are unlikely to see again in our lifetimes unless there is a change to the electoral system (or a major European or world war, in which case such things are likely to be the least of our worries!).

    Take the student fees issue, for which the Lib Dems have been much criticised (and they didn't handle the issue well in terms of publicity!), as an example. Costs were rising, and the available money falling - something had to happen. Under Labour, fees would have gone up, though perhaps not as far as the tories wanted. Under the tories, they would have gone up to the current level. The Lib Dems were not in a position to block that rise, because they were not in a position to fund it by increasing income or lowering spending in the ways they wanted (remember, they wanted to save a fortune by not replacing Trident, but that would have been blocked by both Labour and Tories, so they couldn't square the circle of funding shortfall in that way).

    Rather than just throwing stones or crying about how awful it would be, they worked to make the best of what they could do, and insisted on radically reforming the system for paying back (which neither of the other parties wanted to do, but the tories had to accept as a compromise in coalition to get the rise through at all) so that in practise people would pay back less money per month after graduating than they would have done under the previous system, even at the lower fee levels. It's not perfect or ideal, but it's much, much better than what either Labour or the Tories were proposing (despite the negative headlines and inevitable nonsense thrown about by Labour).

    That is what coalition is about - compromising to mitigate the worst excesses of ideology (on any 'side'), and that is what we need more of in government. Unfortunately, I don't hold out much hope of such a government happening again anytime soon (since there are so many elements in politics and political 'journalism' so hell bent on discrediting the concept in any way they can).
     
  2. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    :laughing:

    Delusion in Europe knows no boundaries!
     
  3. highlander

    highlander Banned

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    Since we became a dictatorship......Ian duncan smith removed as leader of the torys because one person decided to do so! Absolute Proof!

    But we can go back to Churchills son, who attempted a coup de tat in 1975 circa in the UK!

    MI5 gave a talk to the TA about the manner they were to take on the unions and in which order in 1977 two years before that demented (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) was elected!

    The removal of all obstacles ie unions and the neutering of the labour movement, allowed, firstly the self regulations of the banks, they under labour and bLiar and bRown the giving away of the financial infrastructure of the UK to uninvited and unimpeachable degenerates of the banking systems and the Bank of England!

    So basically they are all to blame......but more so are those that voted tory labour or liberal!

    Thank god we have the SNP!

    Eat your heart out England!

    Regards
    Highlander
     
  4. Plymouth

    Plymouth New Member

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    What is this coup d'etat business? I've never heard of Churchill the Usuper...
     
  5. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    What is the "Absolute Proof"?
    Which Churchill? Churchill, the wartime leader's only son, was dead before 1975. Churchill's grandson, Winston Spencer Churchill, was a maverick, but did he actually attempt a coup?

    I agree that Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems are all to blame, and there are now few ideological differences in policies now, but thank god Scotland, rather than the England, has the SNP!
     
  6. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Britain’s real Self-Inflicted Misery is all the migrants it has already and continues to take on. Just how much do you think all the migrants and their children cost the taxpayers? The oversupply of labor drives down wages, while the overcrowding makes housing unaffordable. More and more of Britain's open space is being built on, a direct consequence of expanding the supply of housing to accomodate so much immigration.

    The real benefitors are the corporations. All the immigrants have bid up rents and the price of housing by squeezing whole extended families into tiny apartments. All these muslims are just more blood fodder for the parasitic landowners!
     
  7. highlander

    highlander Banned

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    Aaah...true tory dogma!

    Regards
    Highlander
     

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