"Calling it a mere allegation is calling us liars"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by PopulistMadison, Feb 15, 2018.

?

Anyone else bothered by the claim?

  1. Yes, it is misleading.

    1 vote(s)
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  2. No, it is accurate.

    1 vote(s)
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  3. I don't care.

    1 vote(s)
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  4. Other

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  1. PopulistMadison

    PopulistMadison Active Member

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    To call someone a liar is to say we know they are not telling the truth. We are only sure of that in a fraction of cases.

    To say something is a mere allegation just means we don't know who is telling the truth. It is not a knock against either party, but rather a request that we wait to see the evidence before deciding.


    Anyone else bothered by this frequent switcherroo? I see it as deliberately misleading, and ubiquitous online.
     
  2. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Two seperate women accused Rob Porter of beating them, and one of them showed pictures where her body and face were covered in bruises from his assault.

    Trump's statements that these were "only allegations" occurred after he had already seen all the evidence. So, I think you can say that in his case, he was outright saying that they were liars and that the evidence was fake.

    However, there are many cases, especially in cases like this, where people are prejudged. For example, when Ray Rice "assaulted" his sister in law, everyone called him a monster before it came out that she had actually assaulted him and that he was defending himself when he hit her. I know to most feminists this fact doesn't matter, since a man who even defends himself against an unprovoked attack by a woman is a monster to them, but to most people the fact that she was the one who attacked him first actually matters.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  3. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    al·le·ga·tion
    [ˌaləˈɡāSH(ə)n]
    NOUN
    allegations (plural noun)
    1. a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof:
      "he made allegations of corruption against the administration"


    Doesn't bother me.
     
  4. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see the bad motives of both sides.

    Those saying that "women must be believed" are trying to lower the standards of evidence such that an allegation is taken as gospel. Especially on campuses, they want to inhibit due process to whatever degree possible.

    Those saying "we must wait for a conviction" are deluding themselves when there is in fact credible evidence against the accused. Citizens don't require a conviction to believe someone guilty. Nobody is saying this Florida shooter is not guilty because he hasn't been tried yet. As individuals we can have opinions to ourselves.

    Everything is identity politics now. Everything.
     
    Zhivago likes this.
  5. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Meh, like with the porn star, that was supposedly her and him alone. Then, the attorney was asked and his answer didn't read like he paid her with Trump's money or that it was to silence her. The porn star made the allegations. Is she credible? Maybe, but she is in a position that makes her statements less credible. I think most can't just simply take her word over an attorney and a president. It could be true. I'm not saying it isn't.

    With the shooter, many of the kids knew who he was. It wasn't like it was one person's word against another's. They arrested him and interrogated him. If there was any doubt, they would have released him. I'm sure he left dna and fingerprint evidence. They went to his house and found ammo and other stuff he would have used. It's really tough to question his guilt.
     
  6. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Innocent until proven guilty. Allegations are just allegations until proven otherwise.
     
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  7. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Another attempt by the left to abuse the language. They redefined "choice" to mean abortion, "gay" to mean homosexual, and "assault" to mean getting their feelings hurt. Now they want to redefine "allegation" to mean "lying". An allegation is a charge, it doesn't imply truth or falseness. There's a reason 1984 was about the left.
     
  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Again sir who took the photos? It is amazing what one can accomplish with a judicious use of make up and a bit of animus. Not saying that's what happened just that it is possible. And please this guy isn't an Unknown. He was an Orrin Hatch staffer he's had this sort of access for years.
     
  9. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Allegations are claims of fact that have not yet undergone some (formal, codified) fact-finding process. That's all they are. The "calling us liars" narrative is no more infantile and bogus than any of the LW's other narratives, so not surprising this is how they are choosing to spin for their vapid, dwindling blocs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018

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