Can't see the 'Forest" for the trees! There are many Christians who continually looks for 'new revelation' and new scriptures to support the foundational scriptures as recorded in the book called The Bible, which was canonized by scholars of the time in organizing and blessing' the consistency of the harmony of the spirit behind them. The scriptures can be but just 'dead letters' of printed characters on pages of paper to those who do not look for the life and harmony linking them...aka, the Holy Spirit of God as our teacher: John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. And too many Christians become dead in their faith by picking apart the verbiage in places like cemetaries, er I mean, seminaries; and just as in diagramming sentences, the structures may be analyzed, but the thoughts and intentions behind them are not realized in full. And so, many 'dead,' dried Christians fall into that trap of having much knowledge of the physical but have severed their spiritual connection to the continuity of thought and message, cover-to-cover, of fallen man and his need for a suitable savior; one who can identify with him and his temptations & sins, and yet still win the victory for him as his substitute and future advocate---as in having "walked a mile in his shoes." And so,back to the title of the thread. Too many Christians start to focus on the minutia of scripture, but in the process they lose the view of the whole picture of: salvation & doing the works of the kingdom on God while walking 'on this earth."
Either my point was missed, or I convicted some of the Christians on this forum?! The point is, all the discussion and searching the scriptures are done so in 'vain' if one is neglectful of the big picture of the Gospel, i.e. doing the works of the kingdom. Merely getting 'fat' on knowledge without 'exercising' that knowledge makes one both fat & lazy as a Christian! Many Christians but 'tread water' in their search for knowledge in the scriptures, but do not put that knowledge to profitable use---winning souls into the kingdom of God. Much of the book of Proverbs is about gaining Wisdom, which is described as Knowledge + Understanding, or as in how to use that knowledge. One scripture states plainly, Proverbs 11:30 "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and he who wins souls is wise." Evangelism, or spreading the Good News, is a main work of the Believer; whereas, fruitless discussions and building up vain knowledge do nothing to the adding to the kingdom.....one could say, "They have become so heavenly minded that they were no earthly good."
Sorry you're not getting much traction here. Your unemotional approach deserves respect though, and I for one appreciate it. I think the reason people have become mired in the parsing of scripture is that for the un-believer, scripture itself is one of the great stumbling blocks to belief. There is much in scripture that challenges logic or is conflicting with other parts, and the believer often feels that the path to breaking through is to prove the veracity of the text, and so the verse wars begin. The big picture must be considered the sum of the parts, and it is the parts that remain unconvincing for many. The inerrantist has a tough slog in this war. All people interpret and become selective in their application of scripture, and my experience on here has been that when challenged with the parts of scripture that seem to be unimportant to a poster based on their style or content, they don't submit themselves, or admit weakness in a certain area of faith, but rather get quite angry and the search to defend their attitudes with some obscure scriptural support begins, and the minutiae of scripture becomes the point. When this happens, evangelism has ended, as the poster seems defensive and petty and a perfect example of how their faith is not informing their lives. How do you defend the big picture as you see it without explaining the reasons and evidence that have led you to that understanding? How do you create a forest without trees? Sort of ironic that your appeal for a different kind of evangelism has received no response. At first blush, it doesn't seem to be working.
Yes to many of your points. There comes a point where reasoning does become more defensive when presenting one's point; and at that point in the discussion, one must realize if one is presenting the Good News in love, or if one is entering into a plain, fruitless argument. If one exceeds that point and retaliates with anger, then the discussion has been lost: as per scripture, "the anger of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God." I 'attempt' to make my point in 3-4 posts/counter-posts, and will quickly judge to whether I'm just 'beating a dead horse,' being drawn into a non-profitable argument (usually by one of the regular forum trolls), or am providing scriptural answers to sincere questions. And as you have said, scripture based on a single usage or interpretation may not be accurate or suitable, and so adding context and supporting scriptures tend to help validate the intent. And so one point of the OP was to encourage more than just presenting a righteous 'side' to a discussion based on a multitude of 'dead' facts, but using 'the word of God and the spirit behind it,' substantiate & bolster the point with credibility other than personal opinion. I also 'attempt' to use some humor in the discussion when reqd to provide some 'relief' and not appear as personally attacking a poster. Altho some hard-headed posters sometimes need a 2x4 of tough love on occasion. And, nothing wrong with seeing 'trees,' just dont get caught up in a single tree or two, and lose sight of the overall forest---what is the desired point of your side in the discussion? To be right, or to win one over to the kingdom of God and 'His' righteousness?' NOTE: I use the word 'attempt' above to further state that I'm not 'there' yet either... I may come across as some what blunt, possibly hard, in my postings, but hopefully not 'hateful."
How do you come to the understanding that people who are debating on this forum are not spiritually in a walk with the Lord? How do you know how much witnessing or evangelism anyone on this forum does? You don't. This is a forum for debate. And most are not Christians who are here. And most attack the credibility of the Bible. Thus it is necessarry for the Christian to respond to this. Attack and defend. This isn't a witnessing field with the ones you argue with. They are already set. You provide the truth you know in the Bible to those who may read. To support their faith or lead them to this faith. Quantrill
Forgot to make my 2nd point from the OP: I'm an admitted 'info junky' and enjoy all types of info, and am only limited by my time in researching all that I would like to. But just pure, raw knowledge is not the end-all in presenting the scriptures. The phrase "educated fool" proves that out, as one not having the understanding of how to apply his knowledge. And also in scripture it is said, "Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies." And so, just having an abundance of 'facts' if not mixed with faith ('spiritual' understanding) is fruitless and but vanity to the one lacking the sum of the two... The bottom line is, one can not 'manhandle' another into believing by demonstrating pure facts; for as scriptures states, "No man comes to God unless the Spirit draws him." And, "Without faith it is impossible to please God; for them that come to Him must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who DILIGENTLY seek Him." The Christian cannot 'save' another person either by presenting 'facts' or by besting them in a discussion.
Debate vs. Defense of one's beliefs? The question is ,"What are your intentions concerning the advancement of the Kingdom of God?" Are the words of your testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ posted to attack or present truth and offer life to the reader (as He is the way, the truth, & the life)? The Apostle Paul when he went to the Agora in Greece to 'reason' with the educated Greeks of the day, usually came back with little success. For they were the 'educated fools' of their time, sitting idly daily and discussing 'their navels.' And Paul did not argue with them for as he said 'was not profitable,' I firmly believe that when a Christian enters into but vain arguments, the enemy has won and made their words to no avail. And so, one must asked themselves, "Why are they posting on this forum and in this section?" To participate in vain arguments; or to promote the kingdom of God?
