"China Does Not Have the Ability to Challenge the U.S."

If we went in to Iraq and Afghanistan with the same mindset as the British example, we would storm through there and have just as much of a return on investment.

 

Taiwan is a lost cause. China will eventually entice a large enough percent of the population in Taiwan to rejoin the Chinese block. Talk to some immigrant or 1st generation Chinese here in America. China today is what America was 100 years ago - they are the true new capitalism.

We have 14 permanent bases in the Middle East and an incompetent a$$ sitting in the oval office whose qualifications for POTUS are his ties to Islam. Our POTUS has in the last 6 months encouraged and supported the overthrow of stable governments in the Middle East creating a power vacuum. Does anyone remember why/how Al Queda established a power base in Afghanistan in the first place?

As for China not being a threat to the United States, one word - Korea.

Yes they currently do not have the equipment to support a multiple theatre conflict, however Germany geared up militarily in approximately 60 months from 1935 to 1939 with less resources to start with. China definitely has the finances, manpower, leadership and determination to more than engage the United States. A war with China will be another multi-nation conflict only this time it will be the US getting pounded while Europe wrings it's hands on the sidelines.

Our only hope would be for America to remember where it placed it's balls and not ask, but take them back from the feminist left and duped gay political block. Otherwise they will empower our government to enforce the current police state on the books to control us for our Asian masters as we currently coerce Middle East governments to be our partners in terrorizing their citizens with our military occupation of their countries.

jmho

 

thats foreign reserves, you forgot to include those owned by Americans.

 

Someone once said that China under the Qing Imperium had the worlds largest economy. At that time the British Colonial Empire had already defeated the Spanish and rule the seas. The British, despite having a far flung Colonial empire in N. America, Africa and elsewhere, could not compete with the Chinese economically. While Silk, Tea, spices and other goods flowed out of China, Silver flowed into China-creating a Trade imbalance.

The British resorted to smuggling opium thru India, despite Opium being outlawed under British and Chinese laws. Chinese official led by Magistrate Lin ZheXu confiscated and burned British Opium, sparking the 1st Opium War. The British and later, other European powers demanded China open up her interior to unfettered European traders.

Do we see a parallels with the British v China, and now the American V China? Is it Typical of the Western Civilization to resort to shady business, and eventually to open violence when you are put into an Economic disadvantage?

And another thing, before Them Europeans were clawing their way out of the Dark / Medieval Ages, before they stumbled upon the "New World" they have always been obsessed with finding a sea route to China, because China was indeed the center of the Civilized world at the time. China was the originator of Silk, of Tea culture, of the Magnetic Compass, earliest for Wood Block printing, 1st to use paper money during Song Dynasty, Chinese Ships were the first to use WaterTight Bulkheads, China had the crossbow way before anyone else had.....

Is it any wonder that Napoleon pointed at China and said "There lies a sleeping Dragon, let it sleep for when it wakes, the World shall tremble." ???

 

Actually, they were not trying to find China, as much as the legendary kingdom of Prester John. Explorers from Marco Polo and Columbus to Ponce De Leon were trying to reach China because the kingdom of Prester John, a Christian King of legend was said to be near by.

 

The Search for Prestor John's christian kingdom may have been one of the motivations of European travels, but the much greater motivation was for trade. At the height of Mongol Dominion overland travel thru the Silk route (first established by Han Emperors) was possible due to political unity of Middle East and Central Asia.

The overland route was lost when the Mongol empire split and collapsed:

It seems Western Civilization has always had problems with trade deficits:

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery

Furthermore, there is little doubt that Christopher Columbus's voyages sailing for Spain was an attempt to reach China and India by sea.

 

And this is exactly where Prester John was claimed to have his kingdom.

Don't forget, Prester John was behind a great many legends that fueled the Age of Discovery. Marco Polo was searching for the mythic king as well. He even claimed to have entered the kingdom.

And most of the explorers of the era were working off of the same book as their source, the The Travels of Sir John Mandeville, a 14th century fantasy which made claims (as did Marco Polo earlier) to know the location of Prester John, and the magical waters that allowed him to live for centuries.

We know this part of the legend as the Fountain of Youth.

And one of Columbus' Lieutenants was also a seeker of Prester John, and the Fountain of Youth. We know of his exploration to discover it, and instead finding Florida. Poor Ponce De Leon.

Trade may have been part of what pushed the age of discovery, but the earliest explorations were done in the attempt to find a Christian King of the Orient with mystical, even magical powers. Even Prince Henry the Navigator and Ferdinand Magellan were seeking him out. The legend is that if they helped Prester John lift a seige of his kingdom, he would aid the Crusaders in their campaign in the Holy Land.

 

For a long time Europeans believed Prester John's kingdom was in Ethiopia, in an earlier period Europeans thought it was in Central Asia, now you say they were looking for it in East Asia , but stumbled upon the New World.

As I understand it Prester John was never found, and the greater motivation was for the expansion of trade. I quote this again:

Trade with East Asia brought immense wealth and power to the Maritime REpublics.

 

The fact is Prester John's Christian Kingdom was never found, and most likely never existed. To this day he is just a Myth.

 

El Dorado, Cibola, and the Seven Cities of Gold were also myth and never found. That did not prevent multiple expeditions from searching the North American West trying to find them.

The fact that something is myth does not mean that people do not believe that it is true. Look in the Conspiracy thread in here and you will see a prime example of that in action.

 

Screw opium, we should get them addicted to World of Warcraft.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

 

The Australian bureaucrats are being stupid by allying with the US over China. Australia is a strategic place geopolitically with a weak army (comparably) and it's a wonder that we haven't had any of "our land" taken by one of the Asian nations while we've been allied to the US.
I don't support any imperialist conflicts anyway, just making an observation.


And comparing armies isn't as worthwhile as people are making it out to be. The Chinese "Communist" party has enormous wealth under their influence with their state-capitalist economy, putting them at a huge advantage over the US with their free market. They've still got a perfect political structure for central planning and I'm sure the Chinese big capitalists won't oppose a bit of central planning in the military sector since they gain the insurance of having their assets protected from the US capitalist's interests in a potential war. How did Russia go from backward semi-feudalism to become an entity that the US feared more than any other? Industrialization and militarization through central planning, that's how - and China can pull that card any time it wants to.

 

Exactly, if Americans think central planning doesn't work, why were they so afraid of the Soviet Union overtaking them?

 

Central planning isn't that effective of a military strategy. Look at World War One, the United States was tremendously successful with decentralized industry and volunteerism. They were more centralized in World War II, but still not anything like China or the Soviets.

The U.S. still has significantly more access to capital than China and would be able to throw a lot more money at it's military than China can. The U.S. also has the largest and most advanced arms industry in the world, China can't even design its own domestic jet engine or aircraft carrier.

Are you referring to Tsarist Russia pre-1917? Your comments on Russia are very vague. That country always had tremendous natural resources and a massive population. Even in World War One it was known that if Russia got their act together they would be a force to be reckoned with. Stalin's centralization of the government and his emphasis on heavy industry in his 5 year plans finally converted the country's resources (at the cost of millions of Russian lives) to an industrial powerhouse. In a sandbox scenario, without Russian society's tendency towards totalitarianism, a free market system probaby would have been just as effective. The centralized Soviets economy never even came close to competing with the decentralized U.S. economy which was pretty much always at least twice as big, despite having a smaller population.

Finally, and most importantly, China has absolutely no ability to invade Australia. They lack any kind of naval assets capable of landing a significant enough number of troops. The Australian Navy would also be a nightmare on the Chinese Navy.

 

No, they dont' make our hard goods. When is the last time you saw a Chinese car on American streets, etc?

They make our underwear, socks and toys. Most of these products Americans could do without if they had to until production elsewhere ramps up, and in the modern day, that can be less than a year to move production to another nation or back home.

The US economy is diversified across the globe and impervious to any single attacker, much the way the internet is impervious to a single attacker.

China's economy is a one trick pony with alot of vulnerabilities. They are not a monolithic, unstoppable force of nature.

 

Hard goods include TV's and household appliances and they are virtually all made in China so the other poster was correct when he stated that China makes Americas hard goods. The only reason that you do not see Chinese cars on American roads is because the full capacity of the Chinese auto makers is sold in China as demand out strips supply but that could change in the near future as the Chinese government curtail new car sales in China and that could lead to the excess being exported to the USA and Europe. Their cars would be cheaper to buy than yours so I am sure sales would be very good.

 

TV's are hardly "major appliances". And they are not really "Made in China", as much as "Assembled in China", gigantic difference. These can be assembled anywhere.

And for your claims about most of our appliances being made in China, I would absolutely love to see a reference for that. Yes, I might believe you if you are talking about "Small Appliances", which includes everything from blenders and electric potato pealers and battery operated personal massagers. But if you are talking about major appliances, not hardly. The US is actually still a major player in the world of Major Appliances, including such US companies as Amana, Whirlpool, Maytag, General Electric, Electrolux, and a great many more. Once again, China is not a major player in this area because of a great many things, like quality control issues.

But feel free to check for yourself. And I would love to see your references that say otherwise.

http://business.highbeam.com/indust...household-appliances-not-elsewhere-classified

And yea, Chinese cars are cheaper to buy. They are also made cheap, do not last long, and are unsafe.

How cheap? Well, consider this. There are already motorcycles made in China that are exported to the US because the safety restrictions are much lower then they are for cars. And you can check them out for yourself, and look on the internet for opinions as to their quality.

Wow, there are lots of Chinese motorcycles available you will discover. Then look closely, almost all are in the 250cc or less engine category. And an amazing number are only 125cc with 4 speed transmissions. in fact, want to know how much a Chinese made 500cc motorcycle can cost?

Well, how about $1,500-1,800 each.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/556512607/EEC_500cc_motorcycle.html

Of course, I am not sure if it is 400cc or 500cc, since the photo does not agree with the text, but hey, it's cheap! How cheap you may ask?

Well, it is hard to find new prices for motorcycles on the net, but compare it to these 2009 Suzuki GS500s. These imports are less then half the cost of a 3 year old Japanese motorcycle from an internationally respected company.

http://www.cycletrader.com/Gs-500--...ki|2320128&model=Gs+500|764861087&vrsn=hybrid

And good luck getting the "lifetime warranty" you get with the Chinese bike honored. I used to work at a motorcycle shop, and they had a policy of never working on Chinese bikes because the quality was absolutely garbage. Substandard parts, that often do not match up. One of the few they took in needed a new engine casing (the old one cracked), and it took roughly 2 months to get each one (we had to order 3, the first 2 would not fit due to "irregularities" in manufacturing).

But feel free to do your own research here, be my guest. They reputations are absolutely horrible. Feel free to look around, but you will find that most of the "glowing" reviews are people who are trying to sell these. My wife was considering buying one earlier this year, then I showed her reviews of the one she was looking at by other people, not the sellers.

[video=youtube;Sk3h447vVok]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk3h447vVok[/video]

This one is really great, look at the spedometer, less then 15,000 miles and needed major repairs.

[video=youtube;M8GX45aX5Ps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8GX45aX5Ps&feature=fvwrel[/video]

Now imagine what their cars are like. A lot of the "higher end" Chinese bikes use Japanese and South Korean motors for a reason, their own are junk. Not even their military uses Chinese built engines if they can get away from it, prefering Russian and American ones.

No, very little that is actually "major" comes from China. Certainly not major appliances, where the US is still a major exporter.

But please, find me some references that say otherwise. How many Chinese made Dishwashers, Washing Machines or full size refirdgerators are sold in the US? And how many Chinese cars have passed the US safety requirements so that they can be exported to the US?

 

They are hard goods and that was the point that was being made. "Hard goods are ones that last a few years and TV's are one of those along with fridges,freezers,mobile phones and all that is made in China as are blueray recorders,various computers etc. I did not say that any Chinese cars have been exported to the USA, I said that they might be in the future and they would easily pass any tests,they are only cars and that means they are the basic design used all over the world.

Whirlpool make their products in China.Amana and Maytag are owned by Whirlpool.

Electrolux are a Swedish multi national not American.

Youtube videos and links to alibaba do not constitute evidence where I come from.

I can honestly say that I do not know any one who has any American major goods apart from cars, I know I have none. All the things I posses are made mostly in China.

 

So what? Production could be moved to another nation or back home in less than a year. How many of these appliances are going to break down within 6 months to a year and need replaced?

The point is all of these products are easily lived without until such time as production somewhere else is set up and with modern technology that can be a matter of weeks to a few months.

China's economy is not diversified enough to not be vulnerable to a single sustained economic attack. The Chinese people may be BECOMING consumers, but they aren't there yet.

When China has a real middle class, living a suburban lifestyle full of single family homes, 2 car garages, 2-3 cars each with all the other toys like jetskis, ATV's, boats, etc like you see in America. I'll be concerned. Until then..they are just a bunch of dirty, poorly educated Asian slaves making my disposable crap for me. If I have to lower my standard of living for a few months in order to punish the Chinese for aggressive intransigence, I will do so.

 

Don't be so silly,they have more consumers than America does.

 

Yea, like Great Wall, which are still awaiting their UK debut. Which was incolved recently in a major recall in Australia, for putting asbestos in the vehicles.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19264680

And as of yet, not a single Chinese car has been able to pass US safety requirements.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/18/us-china-cars-idUSBRE88G1DQ20120918

Sorry, but 1.3 litre engine? For goodness sakes, my motorcycle has a larger engine then that!

I never said that those companies do not manufacture in China, but most of their production is not. Yea, Whirlpool has a factory there. They have 8 in the United States (Iowa, Oaklahoma, Tennessee, and 5 in Ohio).

And yea, Electrolux is a Swedish company. It also owns Frigidare, Kelvinator, Gibson, Tappan, Westinghouse, and Eureka. And most of these products are made in the US or North America (Canada & Mexico).

And Alibaba is not evidence? Wow, that is actually the sales site for Chinese exporters who want to sell their goods overseas. I myself have contacted companies through that in the past, and have talked to others who have used it as a way to contact overseas manufacturers.

So then, who should I use then? Since you reject my reference, where should I go to find the price of a motorcycle Made in China?

Well, how about here, less then $2,000 for a 250cc bike, brand new:

http://www.scooterdepot.us/250cc-street-legal-motor-bikes-sport-motorcycles-p-744.html

Is that acceptable?

http://www.powersportsmax.com/product_info.php/cPath/482/products_id/14890

How about that one? A 250cc "Ninja Style" motorcycle for under $2,000, is that acceptable?

I just did a look through my house. Our TV is made in South Korea. Our microwave is made in Taiwan. I use 2 monitors, one made in South Korea the other in Republic of China (Taiwan). Looking at my appliances, none valued more then $100 is made in China. Every one of my vehicles is made in the US (even my motorcycle, a Honda made in Ohio). That includes 2 trucks, a motorhome, and a travel trailer.

And yea, earlier this year I was considering getting my trailer from China. But looking at the various models, most were of a substandard qualirt or were far to heavy, so I bought a used one made in the US.

I guess you are just a China Fanboi also. Let me know in another 10 years how well all those things are working.

 

Really? The average "Disposable income" of China is around $3,000. The average annual salary is around 42,500 yuan (less then $7,000).

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-07/06/content_15555503.htm

Yes, they may have more consumes, but much less income to buy things with.

 

Then where are their single family houses and their 2 car garages and multiple vehicles? Where are their "toys" that most Americans take for granted?

Does the average Chinese live like this?



No, they don't. They live like this:



Now which looks better to you??

 

Exactly!

Look, I am on the lower area of "Middle Income". I own 2 pickups (1999 and 2007), a Lincoln Towncar, a Winnebago, a Goldwing, and a camping trailer for the Goldwing. We have a 52" flat screen TV, 5 computers, and 4 laptops (and this is just my wife and myself).

What does your average Chinese citizen have? His and Hers bicycles? We are hardly rich, we sinply manage our budget and get things we can afford.

Oh, and no, not a single one of these vehicles was financed, they were all bought cash.

Do not confuse "consumers" with "disposable income" or "income". The entire annual income of a Chinese worker is not even half the cost of a Toyota Corolla. Where as the average income os somebody in the US ($46,326) can but 2 Toyota Corollas, and still have some money left over.

And things are just so incredibly awesome in China. That is why so many are willing to risk death to smuggle themselves to the US in cargo containers.