Christmas Again In America

There's no mention of three wise men giving gifts to Jesus. The purpose of giving gifts to Jesus in the story is to illustrate the clause in the 4th Commandment about not appearing before God empty handed. Exodus 34:19-20 (TLB) =
"19 “Every firstborn male is mine—cattle, sheep, and goats. 20 The firstborn colt of a donkey may be redeemed by giving a lamb in its place. If you decide not to redeem it, then its neck must be broken. But your sons must all be redeemed. And no one shall appear before me without a gift."

 

Privately, sure, but we're talking about public displays. Public displays should be open to any group, but they often are not locally. I'm not one to ban displays, but I am one to say if we're going to have a Christian display this week, we can't deny the Satanic display next week (and if we deny it to any one group, it must be denied to all of them).

Being as I'm not a Christian, it's hard for me to feel that offense. To me, I think it's just a matter of Christianity being the predominant religion in this country. I think if Islam had a greater presence here, and as great an influence on government and culture, we'd see a greater attack by atheists against it as well. I don't know. I can't speak for either side.

I realize that this was a bad example as it doesn't pertain directly to Christmas; it's simply a case about Oklahoma City and the 10 Commandments monument once on its capitol building.

Or like I said, perhaps it's just a matter of Christianity having far greater influence on our government and culture than any other religion. Or both maybe; there's probably a little bit of both wrapped up in that community.

 

Judeo-Christian law (the 10 commandments) is the premise of our laws so it is completely appropriate to have them carved in stone in our judicial and other government buildings - like it or not. Atheists, for some personal reason probably rooted in childhood, are bent on obliterating all signs of the religion that was the foundation of Western Culture. However, they would never dream of moving to China and rebelling against Confucianism, or moving to Cairo and demanding that all writing be changed from Arabic to English. So it is a tiring and neurotic conversation - and one that tells more about a person's emotional problems than about our culture.

Why don't you atheists just shut up and go figure out your own celebrations? Oh right... because you don't have any premise: no special food, no tradition, no meaningful DAY. It's all just a black hole of nothingness filled with hate and resentment. So you have to show up on someone else's day and spoil it - like someone who shows up to a birthday party and demands to receive all the gifts in place of the birthday boy.

 

It seems you have not read the Bible, namely Matthew 2. Go read it and then correct your error.

 

I had a wonderful Christmas. Can't remember the last time clerks in the stores were
wishing customers a Merry Christmas. It was quite nice.

 

Sorry but based on your comments you don't have a clue as to what the real Ten Commandments are. They are found in Exodus chapter 34:10-28. Don't boil a young goat in its mother's milk.

 

There's no error. You should point it out if there is. I said that there's no mention of three wise men giving gifts to Jesus. You specifically said that there were three wise men. The fairy tale doesn't say how many they were. They gave Jesus gifts because they considered him "God" and therefore had to bring gifts when they appeared to him in accordance with the 4th Commandment.

 

You wrote:

You were trying to discredit the notion of gift giving.

Matthew 2:11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

Having been exposed, you retreat into a nuance on the number of people giving gifts.

Pitiful.

 

This is very much debatable. Simply looking closely at each Commandment will quickly show that very few of them have any direct representations within our national legislature.

 

It is not debatable at all. The first amendment makes it legal to break the first commandment.

 

OMG!!! WHO KNEW!

 

Yeah but... they guy who carved it into the stone, and the people who commissioned him to do it, believed it was the foundation of our western morals. It is the authority on why you must not kill or steal. It is a very early attempt to codify conduct to produce positive outcomes. I happen to think objections to the Ten represent shallow, Johnny-come-lately perspectives -- more fraught with teenage angst than with wisdom.

It doesn't hurt to have a little respect for the past. It is our shared heritage.

 

Except most of the commandments are completely legal. Lol

 

One, you changed the topic from premise of our laws to foundation of our morals. There is a difference.

Two, I'd simply argue that Satan, and the words and actions associated with him, is also a foundational part of our western culture, having a huge influence on our sense of morality.

 

You are the one who plainly made the error by claiming that there were three wise men. The Bible doesn't say how many there were. And as I pointed out the purpose of the gifts was to illustrate the clause in the 4th Commandment about the requirement to bring God loot everytime you appear before him. The wise men may have considered Jesus God but Joe's family didn't. They wouldn't even let him and Mary bunk with them.

 

The First Commandment tells people to invade other people's territory, kill them if they don't leave or resist becoming slaves, and tear down their religious artifacts. America loves the heck out of the First Commandment.

 

I'll venture a guess and say that you didn't know. But now you do. Here's a visual presentation since it's obvious that you have never read the fairy tale for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCJ8rb8Grw

You can read it for yourself but it might be taxing reading all of Exodus chapters 20-34 and making notes about what you have read.There's no way the idiots would post the real ethnocentric Ten Commandments on any US public building. They don't even do it in Israel.

 

Your dodging and obfuscation fail once again. You were caught making a grossly false claim. Have the integrity to just admit it.

 

I doubt if people grounded in reality think that I made a grossly false claim. You said three wise men. I said that the story doesn't say that. Provide your biblical link to the three wise men and prove me wrong. I can provide a biblical link that doesn't say how many wise men there were. There's never a reason to argue about things that can be verified. And it seems that you didn't have any clue as to why the wise men really brought gifts to baby Jesus.

 

Wrong.

I never wrote "3 wise men".

Keep hand waving and tap dancing, you have been proven demonstrably wrong and exceptionally ignorant of the Bible.

 

I’m sorry that’s not what you want to hear.