Coercive Capitalism vs. Voluntary Socialism

Thank you.

 

You do know that I did not agree that there is socialism in the US, but rather only that socialism requires ownership or control of production, right?

 

Eminent domain satisfies that condition in the US.

 

No, it doesn't. All eminent domain does is give the government the tools to manage land use. It is not socialist in nature.

 

It doesn't work because socialism is a post capitalist system where societies decide to end the old and proceed into the new. Revolutions get rid of hated regimes but they can not dictate what happens next because they have leaders and opposing factions , despite what Marx & Co wrote there is no way to move on without (almost) universal consent.

The basic in communism is to get paid the full value of your personal labor , if you are a high achiever it is against that principle to relegate you in the lazy / failure league . Regimes that remove the incentive to do good are not communist , regimes that redistribute the wealth from those who work to those who play backgammon all day are not communist either.
Please try to understand that since it is very important : communism is against exploitation and this works both ways.

Voting through the internet won't take you longer than a couple of hours every day and you don't have to participate in legislation that does not concern you like say gay marriage, if you don't care skip the discussion . Civilian councils are administrative units , i don't understand how "modern economy" is relevant .

 

Yes, that is socialism even if not used all the time. It completes the public ownership requirement for means of production at will of the State.

 

Communism is even worse than socialism, and we have never had a functioning example. There have been a few experiments, one in Louisiana not far from my hometown, but like all the rest it fell apart and the founders ended up the sole owners of over 7,000 acres of west central Louisiana land. Needless to say, that was their purpose for starting the experiment. No matter how much you spout THEORY, anyone who has studied the situation knows that it won't work.

 

Eminent domain manages land, it does not give the government ownership and it does not give a means of production to the state. Again Daniel, you fail to understand the reality of the situation. You are reaching for straws, straws which are not there.

 

appropriation for public use is public ownership.

 

Eminent domain is not used for public production, and it is as likely it will be for some private business reason which will benefit all the citizens, or to widen a road taking up part of one's property. It is not production owned or controlled by the government.

 

You just defend everything and anything that supports extreme amounts of wealth, don't you? Does big business do ANYTHING wrong or immoral?

 

Public use is public production, even if external to your understanding of the Institution of money based markets.

 

How can you call the freedom to determine your own destiny "coercive?" You openly admit that if you don't like your current circumstances, you can freely walk away at any time. You can seek out something better. Potentially even much better. Depending on what you find. Not only that, but you also have the freedom to work for no one and be your own boss. Is that not the ultimate freedom? One of my best friends since high school currently pays all of his bills right now just playing guitar at various bars around town. How cool is that? He doesn't have a day job. He's completely independent and self-employed. And he's got a teenage daughter that he provides for as well. He has no boss. He has no "master." He has no "slave owner." He just envisioned the life he wanted and he made it happen. All made possible by the capitalist system.

Collectivists think small. Capitalists think big. And your level of success in life ultimately comes from your mindset. That's what too many people don't get. No one is a prisoner of capitalism. They are only a prisoner of their own mind.

 

Production requires some kind of marketable product. Public entities in the US are not productive, they are part of the government protecting the people and private enterprise. Eminent domain is more commonly used to procure needed land for private enterprise, or the infrastructure that private enterprise and other landowners fund with their taxes. It is obvious you don't understand socialism, because you obviously don't understand the difference between private enterprise ownership and control of production and distribution and you confuse it with the government which does not control production and distribution. I guess you need to read a modern reference books definition again.

Full Definition of SOCIALISM
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done ​

 

That's just wrong. For starters, government building and managing roads, for example, which would succumb to market failure if left to private hands, is a very productive contribution to to the economy.

Don't you think?

 

Eminent domain over any private sector means of production completes the socialism requirement.

 

Yet it is not production in the sense of producing goods and services as described in the definition of Socialism.

Nope! The infrastructure is conceived by the community which includes the citizens in what is necessary and paid for by landowners. Trying to associate the creation of infrastructure, as funded by landowners, with socialism is the height of dissonance.

Since you completely lost your argument that LVT is practical your fall back position is to support socialism?

 

Nope! Eminent domain is only a tool to insure land is properly used, and it is mostly either for private industry to provide jobs or to take landowner funds to build infrastructure. None of that is socialism as there are no actual goods provided.

 

I just wanted to address your claim that public entities cannot be productive. Nothing to do with supporting socialism or trying to associate the creation of infrastructure with socialism. No idea where you got that from. It certainly wasn't from my post. No doubt you'd report me now if I specifically identified what you just did while you are allowed to put words in my mouth that I never uttered.

And why even start about LVT? I wasn't even going to bring it up, lol. Crushing you like a worm in that debate got boring.

 

I have never claimed that there can't be productive governments. I said that the US government is not intended nor does it produce.

You have never "crushed" anyone, it that debate or any other debate. You finally conceded that even with LVT the tax paying occupier had exclusive rights to the land just like a fee simple land owner, and that you had not professed LVT could be a single tax. Once that concession was made it became obvious that there is no reason to ever even consider LVT. So you can dismount your high horse and join the rest of us humans. BTW, be careful of suggesting anything about what other members may be, and I know of no one who is a "worm" that can be crushed.

 

Fine. You still said "Public entities in the US are not productive". So you're saying public entities in the US aren't productive when they build and manage roads?

Why would I need to "concede" something that I never denied? WTF???? LVT gives you exclusive tenure to the land as long as you pay the LVT for the value of what you're taking from the community. Why else would one pay the LVT???

I never said that the LVT couldn't couldn't work as a single tax. What I said was that I don't propose LVT as a single tax. Stop putting words in my mouth.

A "concession" of something that was never in dispute and made clear from the get go? That as long as you pay the LVT you get exlusive tenure on the land?

The only thing obvious is the desperation that became apparent in your posts. That's why you put words in my mouth or you claim victory because you supposedly made me "concede" things that were never denied and clear from the get go.

 

Eminent domain is socialism confiscating capitalism through the coercive and social, force of a State; even if a capital program regarding just compensation exists.

 

Our government does not produce goods for sale. That they finance infrastructure built by private enterprise after land owners pay the tax with which they pay private contractors is given.

Concession was automatic once you agreed that occupied land on which the LVT is paid is exclusive to the tax payer.

The only reason anyone pays taxes, LVT or property is to finance infrastructure construction and maintenance.

OK, sorry about that. But we both know LVT in the US could never finance all of the various governments, city, state and federal, so there is really no purpose in even considering LVT as all of the potential value is shot to hell if it is not a single tax.

What is confusion is why you have spent so much time defending a system that is effectively no different than fee simple ownership.

No desperation on my part, it is just interesting that now you are admitting there is no real purpose for LVT even in your mind, you just won't say the words. There was never any concern on my part that it could ever come to pass in a mature economy populated with sane people.

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Wrong! Eminent domain is a tool to manage land, no more and no less, and it has nothing to do with socialism.

 

Worse? socialism is just the path to communism.
I am only familiar with some Australians trying to start a communist collective in Argentina , of course they failed because someone chose to become the leader , to establish a collective you first need to get rid of leadership .

 

Eminent domain is socialism confiscating capitalism through the coercive and social, force of a State; even if a capital program regarding just compensation exists. That is all that is required; but for your special pleading without any sound reasoning for it.