COVID-19 Research, Drug trials and Pathophysiology

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Bowerbird, Apr 13, 2020.

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  1. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those aren't promotions in the context you and others are implying. What he said about strong signs is this (since your claims are all without links):

    "It's a powerful drug on malaria, and there are scientific works on this — some strong signs,"

    Reporting that, and that there are billions in stock, are not the same as promoting the drug use; it's simply the President letting the people know that work was being done and that there are drugs that are offering hope. "What do you have to lose?" is a very valid question. If it is safe - and it is or it wouldn't be prescribed 5 million times a year in the US alone, why wouldn't a person take it in the chance that it helps. What would they have to lose.
     
  2. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Chemotherapy is far, far, more dangerous than is hydroxychloroquine with, according to some reports, as many or more than 50% of patients dying from chemo-related causes. Yet doctors continue to use it. Why? Because even a 50% chance of death is better than near certain death.

    After my wife's ruptured brain aneurysm, there was a second aneurysm found, unruptured. When her first treatments were over, they performed a craniotomy and clipped the second aneurysm. The doctor said she had a 20% chance of not surviving the surgery but there was a 50% chance she wouldn't survive another rupture. In fact, she'd already beaten a 50% chance in surviving the one rupture.

    The point is, doctors try and do a lot of dangerous things after weighing the danger against the medical danger they're trying to avoid. In comparison to craniotomies and to chemo, hydroxychloroquine is a no-brainer. Years from now, when all those randomized, double-blind, peer-reviewed, studies are all completed, and the virus has basically run its course globally, anyway, maybe there will be evidence that changes the medical world's view on hydroxychloroquine but, for now, there are enough in the community that support its use. The only ones complaining are those complaining more about Trump and using their hatred for Trump to drive the discussion.
     
  3. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    AFAICT Trump is at the point where he honestly believes reality will conform to what he believes, if he pushes it hard enough
    Note the bolded. Now , note the fact that even with people who have compromised health overall many, if not most, recover anyway. Even old people with diabetes are not under a death sentence from the beginning.

    Nobody is disputing that this drug should be used on people who pretty much certainly will die if something doesn't save them quickly. What is being disputed is this apparent idea that we should spray it from helicopters, put it in our morning coffee and children's OJ and then get back to work. Epidemics aren't that easy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
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  4. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And no one is saying we should spray it from helicopters, put it in our morning coffee, and children's OJ, are they?

    Those who voted against Trump challenge its use at all, and have supported bans or, in cases where they had the authority, banned its use for political purposes. All the rest of us want is for the decision to be left between doctor and patient - you know, like you keep saying abortion is..
     
  5. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    As Levant had said, no one had ever said anything to the extent of the political hyperbole. Said political hyperbole comes from the Democratic Stasis. Literally, these terms thrown around like "miracle cure" were never used by the President, by the administration or by the freaking LAB COATS ruling over us now.

    Let me repeat that: In 2020, in America, we are ruled over by FREAKING LAB COATS. And now that we're getting increased authoritarian action on private property and on the protests, we're sinking further and further into the abyss. The hope that these draconian methods would be released after the virus's storm is dealt with looks increasingly unlikely.

    Interfering with patient-doctor relationships, when the Democrats used to brag and boast strongly for them, is the new normal. Our new normal is the continued disgrace of losing our civil liberties.

    And then the Dems have the audacity to say "If we were in control, it'd be different!" When these Democratic governors took the initiative and it was revealed in the 7 page document by the previous administration.

    In other words: This is their game plan. This is it. Stop lying to the Republic, democrats when you say things will be different when you initiate these things and it comes from the previous administration. This is what the party wants.

    All it takes is anyone to have their eyes remotely open, to see the unwelcomed and unasked for transformation of government prior to the november elections, and the loss of civil liberties. The nation is seeing an early campaign for Stasi America.

    And it's just like any other far-left hell hole.
     
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  6. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    NO!

    Promoting an unproven drug is absolutely not a President duty/responsibility.

    Trump's handling of the hydroxychloroquine file bears a resemblance to his 13 FAILED businesses.
     
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  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You're doing everything but. You're saying it should be widely used and used as a preventative even when people haven't been tested to see if they have the disease and/or to see if they have conditions which its side effects might exacerbate. And I don't know of anyone who has supported a ban on doctors prescribing it.
     
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  8. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    Which no-one has ever said or insulated. The left like yourself does the same thing over and over, it's tiresome. You take something Trump said, add a few words or sentences, then claimTrump said this or meant that. He point blank said over and over, DRS are saying it's working, he hope it does and it has promise. Fauci said he would prescribe it, yet you guys are on here every f'ing day hoping it fails and more die. It's crazy to think that it's prescribed to millions every year safely, yet all we hear from you guys is it's side effects. It's as if a DR doesn't know side effects and doesn't have a control range of who to prescribe it to based on 30 plus years of experience with this particular drug. Bottom line if Pelosi would have mentioned it before Trump your tune wouldn't be the same but since Trump mentioned it first, it's a devil pill. Who the heck cares, I watched a lifelong African American dem from Michigan tell us how it immediately changed her condition and she felt it saved her life. I guarantee you she didn't put partisan politics ahead of her life and she is certainly glad her DR didn't either.
     
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  9. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    1984

    April 4th:
    "If it were me — in fact, I might do it anyway. I may take it, okay? I may take it," he said at a press briefing. "And I'll have to ask my doctors about that, but I may take it."
    https://www.politico.com/video/2020/04/04/trump-says-he-may-take-hydroxychloroquine-070784
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-4-23_23-35-42.jpeg
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Trump has been promoting this drug on scant clinical evidence

    [​IMG]




    HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents).....


    387K

    12:13 AM - Mar 22, 2020
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    174K people are talking about this

    N
    ow the NIH is recommending against it and the right are screeching about Democrat plots
     
  13. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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  14. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    A REAL CHANCE does not mean it's a miracle drug guaranteed to save everyone in the world so rush out and get prescribed. It promising and has worked well for some, the question is why you want it to fail sooooooo badddddd.
     
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  15. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    You "Which no-one has ever said or insulated."
    Trump "in fact, I might do it anyway."

    1984
     
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  16. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He said, "Have a real chance." Not IS, Not Probably IS. Have a real chance. They still have a real chance. Until it's all said and done, and the studies are completed, you don't know if the chance is realized or is vaporized.
     
  17. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    What did I say that Trump said? And I never supported a ban.
     
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  18. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Which bit don't you get?
    You wrote "Which no-one has ever said or insulated."
    Trump said "in fact, I might do it anyway."

    Are you pretending to be this slow?

    1984!
     
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  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Cite please.

    Or, is this just your theory?
     
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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Excuses excuses
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There you go with your "hate Trump" theme again.

    What action do you think VA doctors took because of how much they hate Trump, thus causing the deaths of patients in a drug trial? Do you really think that doctors would risk killing patients becase of a disagrement with a president?


    As for testing, you're totally missing the issue. FOX news (Hannity, Laura, and the rest) strongly promoted this drug before it was tested.

    NOW, you want to wait to see if they were wrong?? Do you really think that strongly promoting a drug before the test results are known would vindicate the prior promotion???
     
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  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I did not admit I was wrong - I pointed out that even if I WAS wrong, it didn't matter to the argument.

    In a subsequent post I described how I absolutely was NOT wrong about Trump promoting this drug.

    I just didn't want to point out you were wrong in both cases in one post, as they are only slightly related.
     
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  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is no scientific evidence that this drug has worked well for anyone.

    Whether the drug works is something that only testing can determine. So far, tests have come back NEGATIVE. In fact, the VA test appears to show that those who took Hydrochloroquine had worse outcomes.

    BTW: EVERYONE has wnated it to WORK!! Your idea that there exist people who want treatments to fail is just plain disgusting.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That is not all he said.

    He bought millions of doses and gave them to hospitals - something he hasn't seen as important to do for PPE, ventilators and other life saving equipment and material. He dmonsrated his seriousness about this drug with his actions.

    What do you have to lose IS a serous question. Why would you abandon your doctor to take some untested drug? There IS a lot to lose there - your life, for example.

    As it happens, the negative side effects of hydrochloroquine ARE known. So, he didn't tell peole what their risks actually are - something that even TV ads do when advertising drugs.

    You say "if its safe" - a GREAT caveate indeed! But, this drug is KNOWN not to be completely safe, and the way we find out about safety is through testing - something that happens BEFORE making yourself your own little lab rat.
     
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  25. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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