Covid and the fundamentals of freedom

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by AngryCitizen, Feb 21, 2022.

  1. AngryCitizen

    AngryCitizen Member

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    Developments have escalated in Canada and I understand the emotions of frustration about the Covid regulations that seem to rule the world.

    Nevertheless, I think we should all agree there is a fundamental difference between
    a protest march to express one's opinion in a free democracy, and paralyzing a country for weeks thus taking away the freedom and income of others.

    Snatching away freedom from others can never work in a democracy!
    If you don't agree, let's do the math on that: If group A and B have equal rights and A can take away the freedom of B, while B can do the same with A, we end up in a deadlock. So, this clearly cannot apply.

    Okay, now I hear people saying: "how about freedom of what you put into your body and what not?"
    Sure, I agree that is a very important freedom and I acknowledge that wholeheartedly.
    But freedom is inherently linked to accountability about the consequences.
    What are you going to do when you refused to vaccinate and as a result, you are deadly infected by Covid while the hospitals are overloaded?
    There are many other people badly in need of the hospital due to cancer and other lethal diseases.
    So what if you are dying of covid due to not being vaccinated? Will you kindly suffocate at home giving up your bed in hospital, or will you demand the solidarity of the system?
    The same solidarity of the system, by the way, that asked you to vaccinate to protect yourself and others?

    It strikes me how many times I hear talking about freedom, nowadays, without talking about obligations and responsibility.
    Nevertheless, this is a one-package deal, folks. One can't have one without the other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
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  2. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    Another post that makes me glad I live in Texas where everything is open, masks are a choice, businesses thrive and our kids go to real schools. All the China Virus Mandate Tyranny is OUTLAWED here. Texas! Where FREEDOM REIGNS! (And death from COVID is 38th per 100,000 popultion in the 50 states.)
     
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  3. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Americans have stopped caring about their neighbors so none of those appeals to emotion are going to make a dent. They just don't care. Sorry.

    eta: I'm not vaccinated but I also never leave home any more so I'm not putting anybody else at risk of catching anything from me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
  4. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

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    We don't believe them when they say unvaccinated are threats. I believe the real threats are scientists that do research that threatens all of humanity, and are sloppy about it.
     
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  5. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Well I am typically against the use of emergency powers but I understood it this time.
    One of the leaders of the convoy was a former body guard of Trudeau and an RCMP officer. He knew how the police would respond and he strategized to stall them at every turn. He knew that the big trucks would form a huge challenge to the police. He coached his followers at every step to thwart the police.

    ‘Without the emergency powers that the government invoked there would not have been enough police to remove the protestors. Now I have no doubt that some protestors felt poorly treated but imagine if the Ottawa police were to have tried to remove the protestors with their limited manpower instead of with the 1800 officers who were able to come due to the expanded powers. Imagine how much money would be financing these people had they not been granted the emergency powers. I have already read that the freezing of accounts is over so we know the use of the act for that purpose was short lived.

    ‘And when I say “these people” a lot of the people who supported the protestors were good Canadians who are just tired and frustrated by two years of restrictions coming and going. Some people have lost their jobs or businesses due to this pandemic. At the core of the protest though you have organizers who did promote racist, authoritarian views as in the case of Patrick King and in the case of whoever brought those weapons to the Coutts border blocade.

    Overall though it is so out of character for Canadians to act this way and it’s shameful to now hear people talking about Canada as though we shouldn’t all be extremely grateful for living in this country.

    I have lived free all my life, including the last two years. Wearing a mask or avoiding public places during an epidemic isn’t a restriction on my freedom, it’s common sense!

    I have also lived in peace and economic prosperity all my life. This is not a place where freedom is gone, it’s not a place where we need to get our point across by holding cities and borders hostage to impose our point of view over the democratically elected government.
     
  6. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    There is no proof that the Vax stops corona virus. Thus, why take away my freedom in the name of Authoratorian Dictatorship. Especially, to force people to inject an experimental drug into their own bodies with zero liability if something goes wrong. If I become disabled due to the vax shot, then I am personally liable and have to pay the bills out of my own pocket. Why the hell should my freedom be rejected just so you can feel good about yourself for being vaccinated. And, no hospitals have been overwhelmed to the point of no return in the past year, vax or no vax.
     
  7. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    And Florida too! I am in Poland now and they never once asked if I was vaccinated and most places do not have any mask mandates. There is actual freedom still out there not ruined by tyranical forces creating paranoia through mass media. And, Israel where every single person is vaxed and boosted leads the world in Coronavirus infections per capita right now. No vax stops this scientifically engineered virus.
     
  8. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    E9E35415-ABF2-4ED7-8F67-18D4DD9048BD.jpeg

    58F8B99C-FE8D-42F6-8B74-07C6C49AAEC9.jpeg


    The population distribution is so much different but Canada has 10 million people more than freedom loving Texas but half the deaths.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
  9. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    "My body, my choice"
    This is an absolute, or it's a slogan.
     
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  10. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Let the world know when people are held accountable for what they voluntarily put into their bodies that have been affecting the world population for centuries... alcohol, recreational drugs, junk food, cigarettes, the list goes on and on. Let the world know that people who don't maintain some sort of reasonable weight, don't use abortion as a means of birth control, don't sky dive, climb mountains, drive motorcycles, travel to foreign countries during political upheaval, or do anything other than sit in their homes. Even watching TV can be detrimental, so no more of that.

    The ridiculousness of the idea that because people did not receive an injection that only reduces symptoms means they don't deserve medical care is so narrow minded it is rather astounding.
     
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  11. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    I am close friends with my neighbors. But I must admit that I am not overly concerned that they will be hit by lightning. The China Virus is getting to be like lightning.
     
  12. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

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    I am not responding to disagree with you. I don't fully agree with your view, but I also can't find any real problem with it either. I am simply responding to tell me my view of Canada and Canadians.
    I grew up in New York. We visited Canada for vacations. It was a fun place. And our dollar usually bought a little more there than it did at home.
    Canada had unique things to offer... like Quebec City luxury hotels with French cuisine like rabbit and more.
    Then I grew up and found myself doing defense business with the Canadian MOD in Ottawa. I lived and worked there for a fairly long time. I ran into many people who had come to Canada for extended periods who never intended to stay, just to make money. I found the average Canadian was amazed that we stood to sing our national anthem before major sporting events and other large gatherings. "Nationalism" (also known as "patriotism") was present, but not a big deal.
    I worked on a Canadian program called "CASW" (Company Area Suppression Weapon). It was designed to replace all the 81mm mortars that Canada had retired. The leading competitor was the Americam M19 Grenade Machine Gun. I was part of the American team proposing a new system with a new high tech sighting system.
    General Dynamics, L-3, and many other major American defense companies were in the competition. We invested, built prototypes and spent endless hours in Canada working with our MoD customer. Millions of dollars were spent. The MoD wined and dined us regularly from fine dinners to maple syrup farm locations. At the end of about two years, we were called in and thanked for our effort. The program had been canceled. The money, allocated in one lump sum, was gone. The Canadian staff told us that if they ever needed defense, America would be there to defend them so it was all ok. Then the entire staff, all senior military or civilian... retired.

    Canadians seem confused. And Trudeau leads the way.
     
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